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Re: bug qa-translate-flag

From: Gunnar Bittersmann <gunnar@bittersmann.de>
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 12:26:27 +0200
Message-ID: <540449D3.7080401@bittersmann.de>
To: Richard Ishida <ishida@w3.org>
CC: www-i18n-comments@w3.org
Hi Richard,
With deepest apologies, there are still things that slipped through 
while reviewing the article. In order of importance, AFAIS:



A. http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-translate-flag#attributes

»»
This can, of course, cause problems in cases where you do want the 
attribute values to be translated but not the element content, or vice 
versa. In some cases those situations can be mitigated by nesting the 
markup concerned. For example, you could have an outer span element with 
translate set to yes that carries the title attribute you want to avoid 
translating.
««

It’s not clear that “you want to avoid translating” should refer to the 
“outer span element”. As written, it refers to the “title attribute” 
which is wrong. This sounds as if the title attribute value should not 
be translated while in fact it should be. It’s the element content that 
should not be translated. Only then the following makes sense:

»»
Inside that span you could put another span with translate set to no and 
containing the element content. This is how articles in this series 
handle links to translated versions of a page – the title attribute of 
the outer element carries the name of the language pointed to, and the 
inner element carries the name of that language in the language itself 
(which should not be changed). This also helps when labelling the 
language using the lang attribute.
««

Please reformulate the sentence in question.



B. http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-translate-flag#why

»»
<p>Click the Resume button on the Status Display or the
<span class="panelmsg" translate="no">CONTINUE</span> button
on the printer panel.</p>
««

I think this sample would be clearer if the output of a translation 
(where “CONTINUE” and surrounding text would differ in language) would 
be shown below, e.g. into German:

<p>Drücken Sie Fortsetzen in der Statusanzeige oder die
Taste <span class="panelmsg" translate="no">CONTINUE</span>
an Ihrem Drucker.</p>

The HTML source code would be:

<p>In German translation this will become:</p>
<figure class="example"><p><code>&lt;p&gt;Drücken Sie Fortsetzen in der 
Statusanzeige oder die<br>
Taste &lt;span class="panelmsg" translate="no"&gt;<span 
translate="no">CONTINUE</span>&lt;/span&gt;<br>
an Ihrem Drucker.&lt;/p&gt;</code></p>
</figure>

I’ve added this into my translation 
http://dev.bittersmann.de/International/questions/qa-translate-flag.de#why 
You might want to consider having it in the English original.



C. 
http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-translate-flag#yyyshortcomings

»»
For example, we may want to allow the natural language text of the above 
source code to be translated, while protecting the code itself (ie. the 
keywords such as label, for, postcode, input, etc.). We could do that by 
surrounding the natural language text with elements that have the 
translate attribute.
««

sounds as if this would work with current online translation services, 
while down below in 
http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-translate-flag#stickyness 
it says

»»
Microsoft and Google's translation engines also don't translate content 
within code elements. Note, however, that you don't seem to have any 
choice about this – there don't seem to be instructions about how to 
override this if you do want your code element content translated.
««

How about adding the info that translating natural language in code 
samples is wishful thinking current online translation services already 
in the first place?



D. still 
http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-translate-flag#yyyshortcomings

Shouldn’t the section identifier "yyyshortcomings" be renamed to 
something that fits to the heading “When to use translate="yes"”?



E. still 
http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-translate-flag#yyyshortcomings

»»
<p>The <code class="kw">yes</code> value of the <code 
class="kw">translate</code> attribute is mostly used to override the 
effect of setting translate to <code class="kw">no</code>.
««

The second “translate” should also be marked-up as keyword, should it?

<p>The <code class="kw">yes</code> value of the <code 
class="kw">translate</code> attribute is mostly used to override the 
effect of setting <code class="kw">translate</code> to <code 
class="kw">no</code>.



F. http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-translate-flag#how

»»
<a 
href="http://www.w3.org/TR/its20/#EX-translate-selector-1">Internationalization 
Tag Set (ITS)</a> specification.
««

and below

»»
on the Internationalization Tag Set specification
««

The specification title should be set in italics, i.e. marked-up using a 
cite element?



G. 
http://dev.bittersmann.de/International/questions/qa-translate-flag.de#why

In the example with “french pain”, shouldn’t “pain” be tagged as French 
using <span lang="fr"> (giving a good example)?



H. http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-translate-flag#attributes

Using <sup>1</sup> leads to increased line height, destroying the 
vertical rhythm.

Suggestion: Use Unicode character ¹ or asterisk * as sidenote indicator.



Hopefully, I’ve found all the nits to pick now.

Cheers,
Gunnar
Received on Monday, 1 September 2014 10:26:54 UTC

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