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Re: Fwd: Re: Israeli HTML Standard
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To: "Martin J. Duerst" <mduerst@ifi.unizh.ch>, David Rashty +972-2-6584848 <RASHTY@WWW4.HUJI.AC.IL>, Dani Ilan <standard@NetVision.net.il>, Stefan Fuchs <sf@bezeq.co.il>, Israel Ervin Gidali <gidali@vnet.ibm.com>, Nati Guedalia <natig@ncc.co.il>, Gil Mor <gilmor@microsoft.com>, Mati ALLOUCHE <matia@vnet.ibm.com>, Moshe Shalom <moshe_shalom@easx.co.il>, Yevgenia Palanker <pal@actcom.co.il>, Doron Shikmoni <P85025@VM.BIU.AC.IL>, Francois Yergeau <yergeau@alis.com>, Gavin Thomas Nicol <gtn@ebt.com>, Glenn Adams <glenn@spyglass.com>, www-html@w3.org, Khaled Sherif <sherifk@caivm1.vnet.ibm.com>, Jeff Rosenschein <jeffr@accentsoft.com>, Chris Wendt <christw@microsoft.com>, John McConnell <johnmcco@microsoft.com>, Yaniv Feinberg <yanivf@microsoft.com>, Erik van der Poel <erik@netscape.com>, Uri Postavsky <urip@rtlsoft.com>, Uzzi Ornan <ORNAN@cs.technion.ac.il>, Chris Lilley <Chris.Lilley@sophia.inria.fr>, "Mark H. David" <mhd@WORLD.STD.COM>, Edward Resnick <Edward.Resnick@Israel.Sun.COM>, ILAN Hebrew List <ilan-h@taunivm.tau.ac.il>, Jonathan Rosenne <rosenne@NetVision.net.il>
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Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Israeli HTML Standard
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From: Doron Shikmoni <P85025@VM.BIU.AC.IL>
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Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 20:04:10 IST
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From www-html-request@www10.w3.org Sun Jun 15 13: 19:14 1997
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In-Reply-To: Message of Sun, 15 Jun 1997 17:39:42 +0200 (MET DST)
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Message-Id: <199706151719.NAA10003@www10.w3.org>
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X-List-URL: http://www.w3.org/pub/WWW/MarkUp/Forums#www-html
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X-See-Also: http://www.w3.org/pub/WWW/MarkUp/
Martin J. Duerst writes:
>I see. So there is indeed considerable effort going into making
>some visually coded text appear correctly on old browsers.
>
>And texts marked up this way won't display nicely, or even readably,
>on browsers conforming to RFC 2070 or Cougar (which included RFC 2070).
>
>So there always have to be two document versions, one visual for
>old browsers, and one with real BIDI for new browsers. The distinction
>between iso-8859-8 and iso-8859-8-X would then only have the effect
>to help negotiating these versions; i.e. old browsers would send
>Accept-Charset: iso-8859-8, and new browsers would send
>Accept-Charset: iso-8859-8-X.
>
>Is this a workable model? It implies that servers store two versions.
>Servers that don't want to store two versions can use visual order
>and also use <BDO> in order to tell newer browsers to treat things
>the way it is intended. If everything is tagged with <BDO>, the
>difference between iso-8859-8 and iso-8859-8-X disappears.
This (extremely well put) summation of the issue demonstrates
the problematics of maintaining a "double standard" (excuse the pun).
Current "install base" don't have BDO tags, and will probably not
carry two versions for each page. Instead, we will see a split world
realm.
>> When you specify in the charset for Visual order, you command the browser
>> to parse the text as English Text. this is an exception.
>
>This is not what RFC 2070 nor Cougar is doing. Overloading BIDI
>semantics with "charset" parameter may have been necessary for
>email, but we want to move away from it. And having to tell
>developpers: Implement the full BIDI algorithm, but then please
>also have a method for switching it off, depending on the "charset"
>is not what will get a lot of work done in this area.
Exactly. Actually, it was not even "necessary" for E-Mail; it was
needed to get Hebrew E-Mail support out the door *quickly* (registration
of another charset proved to be much faster than defining new MIME
tags & values, at the time).
Regards,
Doron Shikmoni