W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-html@w3.org > September 2007

Re: XHTML: Combining list elements altogether

From: Yahia Chlyeh <cyahia@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 17:46:51 -0000
To: 3w-html <www-html@w3.org>
Cc: paulnel@winse.microsoft.com, mjan@em2-solutions.com
Message-ID: <op.ty2g0evmbhoi91@poste0>

On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 07:42:46 -0000, Michael Jansson  
<mjan@em2-solutions.com> wrote:

> There is a semantically difference between ordered lists, unordered  
> lists, definition lists and navigation lists (different meaning and  
> purpose).

Not really. You can say there is, between <ol/> and <ul/>, but this  
sematical meaning can be preserved with setting type="ordered" on <list/>.  
Then there's <nl/> left. This one has no sematical meaning if we compare  
it with <dl/>, <ul/> and <ol/>. That's why <list role="nav">'s purpose is  
very clear here.

> The standard would thus be less expressive if the lists were unified.

I disagree. If they were unified, it would make the standard more polished.

On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 21:57:44 -0000, Paul Nelson (ATC)  
<paulnel@winse.microsoft.com> wrote:

> It breaks all UAs that are not aware of the new syntax.

I already said "seize the opportunity" while XHTML2 is still a work in  
progress, so don't bring out the "breaking UAs" argument. Do current user  
agents know what <section>, <h>, <handler>, etc. mean?

> I'm not sure that the author would have a perceived benefit of this type  
> of change.

When wanting to set a list, the author won't think anymore if he wants it  
to be ordered or not. A list is a list, with random items by default,  
<list/>. I think this is also good since changing the list type wouldn't  
be a burden anymore since you'll only have to change the first tag of the  
<list/> element. In the current state you have to change the start _and_  
end tags of the <ul/> or <ol/> elements. Think about the possible mistakes  
in the case of very complicated lists when there are lots of nested list  
elements and other additional stuff in the source code. Finally, there  
won't be another name for the same thing, that may be cleaned up later in  
the specs -- I'm talking about <nl/>, since its functionality is easily  
fulfilled with the role attribute.

Yahia Chlyeh
Received on Saturday, 22 September 2007 17:47:16 UTC

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