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RE: XHTML: Combining list elements altogether

From: Paul Nelson (ATC) <paulnel@winse.microsoft.com>
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 14:57:44 -0700
Message-ID: <49C257E2C13F584790B2E302E021B6F9146CD25D@winse-msg-01.segroup.winse.corp.microsoft.com>
To: Yahia Chlyeh <cyahia@gmail.com>, 3w-html <www-html@w3.org>

Interesting suggestion. I can understand your desire to group like things into one element type.

Personally I don't see a compelling reason to group things like this.
1. It breaks all UAs that are not aware of the new syntax.
2. It produces more typing for the author. I'm not sure that the author would have a perceived benefit of this type of change.


-----Original Message-----
From: www-html-request@w3.org [mailto:www-html-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Yahia Chlyeh
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 2:21 AM
To: 3w-html
Subject: XHTML: Combining list elements altogether


On the XHTML2 drafts I see 3 list elements that fulfill the same purpose:  
being a list. These elements are <nl/>, <ul/> and <ol/>. Plus there are  
suggestions to add even more. (<toc/> anyone?)

I have to agree that <nl/> is a good idea, but why not have a simple list  
handle navigation while having a role="nav" or something similar? I think  
user agents might not have a problem with identifying the attribute and  
incidentally making this navigational list special.

If this is thought about, we should then, on XHTML2, get back to the  
current model of ordered and unordered lists. But, since XHTML2 is very  
different from the previous languages, then why not seize this opportunity  
and settle the lists problem once and for all? What I'm suggesting is,  
instead of having three different element names for the same thing:


We could just make lists easier by writing them this way:


with their default presentation being _unordered_ (making them ordered  
would then be done with CSS).

I think that being unordered by default is the best way to go. While it's  
possible to style with CSS like I said earlier, I think that text-only UAs  
would need a way to display ordered lists, this is why an attribute may be  
needed (<list type="ordered">), but I'm not sure.

So, to summarize:

<list/> instead of <ul/>
<list role="nav"/> instead of <nl/>
<list type="ordered"/> or <list ordered="ordered"/> instead of <ol/>

Wouldn't this remove the clutter of unnecessary elements?

The <dl/> element would stay out of this.

I searched but haven't found a thread about this, so I don't know if a  
similar suggestion has been done.
Yahia Chlyeh

Received on Tuesday, 18 September 2007 21:56:50 UTC

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