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Re: XHTML Applications and XML Processors [was Re: xhtml 2.0 noscript]

From: Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 22:01:15 +0000 (UTC)
To: David Woolley <david@djwhome.demon.co.uk>
Cc: www-html@w3.org
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0706012159390.23576@dhalsim.dreamhost.com>

On Thu, 3 Aug 2006, David Woolley wrote:
> I think it is a reasonable expectation to be able to interact as soon as 
> an element appears.
> However, I would note that typical commercial designs actually frustrate 
> the appearence of the user interface elements by:
> a) having the start of the download filled up by a large scripting 
> library;

The spec has async="" and defer="" attributes on <script> to help with 
this now.

> b) using auto layout tables whose size depends on images, so that the 
> browser doesn't have enough information to render the page until it has 
> nearly all arrived (I think some browsers do a fix up, rather than 
> delaying),

This is a CSS issue.

> I'm also aware of cases where people have deliberately delayed the 
> enabling of HCI elements until all the scripting, etc. has loaded, 
> because it makes things more predictable that way.

Certainly it is easier to write code when you don't have to worry about 
the case where half the code is missing.

> When I've though about this in the past, I've concluded that the current 
> specifications are inadequate when there are multiple download streams. 
> E.g., if, as ought to be good practice, the scripting library is in a 
> .js file, does anything specify what happens if a function is called 
> before the parallel load of the scripting file completes (and the 
> declaration hasn't yet been seen)?

The specs define this (you get an exception), but it isn't exactly clear 
to me what we can do to make this better in a way that authors would 
actually leverage.

Ian Hickson               U+1047E                )\._.,--....,'``.    fL
http://ln.hixie.ch/       U+263A                /,   _.. \   _\  ;`._ ,.
Things that are impossible just take longer.   `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
Received on Friday, 1 June 2007 22:01:39 UTC

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