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Re: [XHTML2] Spirit of "1.1.3. XHTML 2 and Presentation" (PR#7759)

From: Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 17:55:11 +0000 (UTC)
To: Steven Pemberton <steven.pemberton@cwi.nl>
Cc: Steven Pemberton <xhtml2-issues@hades.mn.aptest.com>, www-html-editor@w3.org, www-html@w3.org
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0602081748421.28514@dhalsim.dreamhost.com>

On Wed, 8 Feb 2006, Steven Pemberton wrote:
> Ian Hickson wrote:
> > On Fri, 13 Jan 2006, Steven Pemberton wrote:
> > > > XHTML2's "1.1.3. XHTML 2 and Presentation" section says:
> > > > 
> > > > # XHTML 2 takes HTML back to these roots, by removing all presentation #
> > > > elements, and subordinating all presentation to style sheets.
> > > > 
> > > > This, while technically true, does not seem completely consistent with
> > > > the inclusion of the style="" attribute (in section 27 XHTML Style
> > > > Attribute Module). I feel that the intent of removing all presentational
> > > > aspects from the language is to be applauded and would like to ask for
> > > > the purely presentational style="" attribute to be removed.
> > > > 
> > > > If it is to remain in XHTML2, however, a clear indication of its purpose
> > > > should be given, so as to explain the conflict between its presence and
> > > > the sentiment of section 1.1.3.
> > >
> > > The WG has decided to suspend this issue (ie decide whether to 
> > > include the style attribute or not) until after last call.
> > 
> > Um, it would seem that this issue would have to be resolved _before_ 
> > last call, otherwise we could not make a complete review of the 
> > document during last call. Therefore this does not satisfy my request.
> 
> Unfortunately, this is an issue where consensus hasn't been reached

In that case, per W3C process, you will be unable to progress beyond last 
call.


> Since we can't please both groups at once, since no new information has 
> come in, and since can't keep ping ponging the attribute from draft to 
> draft, we resolved to leave it as is, bring attention to the issue at 
> last call, and revisit it then.

As you are no doubt aware, however, W3C process section 7.4.3, paragraph 7 
sentence 2, and all of section 7.4.6, require you to go back to last call 
if you make any substantive changes. As you have pointed out, this is a 
big change. Therefore attempting to duck the issue until after last call 
seems like a false economy -- it will only force you to have _another_ 
last call.


> I'm sorry you are not satisfied, but it is either you or Daniel Glazman.

My request was not only to remove the style attribute. It was to either 
remove the style attribute, _or_, to make it clear that XHTML2 is not a 
purely non-presentational language, with prose explaining why.

-- 
Ian Hickson               U+1047E                )\._.,--....,'``.    fL
http://ln.hixie.ch/       U+263A                /,   _.. \   _\  ;`._ ,.
Things that are impossible just take longer.   `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
Received on Wednesday, 8 February 2006 17:55:20 GMT

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