W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-html@w3.org > November 2004

Re: RFC: XHTML Report Extension

From: Thomas O'Connor <me@ocoth.id.au>
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 14:24:34 +1100
Message-ID: <41A3FEF2.50305@ocoth.id.au>
To: www-html@w3.org

> Syntax:
> ~
> <p>
> The <ref cite="w3paper">W3 paper</ref> says that &lt;cite> is a formatting
> tag.  <ref cite="w3paper" /> also says that &lt;em> is a formatting tag.
> </p>
> 
> <rl>
>  <li name="w3paper" uri="http://w3.com/paper.txt">
>  W3 Paper on xhtml
>  </li>
> </rl>
> ~

I believe the current XHTML 2.0 WD[1] caters for your proposal, in a more generalised fashion perhaps.  I believe the following to be equivalent 

<p>The <span href="#w3paper">W3 paper</span> says that &lt;cite> is a formatting tag.  <span href="#w3paper">W3 paper</span> also says that &lt;em> is a formatting tag.</p>
 
<nl>
	<label>References</label>
	 <li id="w3paper" href="http://w3.com/paper.txt">W3 Paper on xhtml</li>
</nl>

As you can see, the elements used are slightly more general.

> The Web browser would not be able to render the <ref> tag properly until the
> <rl> list was fully or partially parsed.  Web browsers currently adjust the
> page layout as images are loaded, sometimes having to find out if an image
> exists and either insert or remove the "alt" text; so the issue of having to
> alter the rendered output after the page is loaded is not a new consideration,
> and thus is not a problem.

I believe your proposal to be different to the subject of images.  Images are objects that do not alter the source, they just alter the layout, and if you supply width and height attributes all you really are doing, in one sense, is filling in a blank .  Plus they provide alt text so if it isn't loading the document still works fine.  However, in your proposal, there is no content without the cross referencing, which is new to markup.  "The <ref cite="w3paper">W3 paper</ref> says that &lt;cite> is a formatting  tag.  <ref cite="w3paper" /> also says that &lt;em> is a formatting tag." currently renders as "The W3 paper says that <cite> is a formatting tag.  also says that <em> is a formatting tag.", and thus is also read by search engines as so.  While XHTML does pose many backwards compatibility issues, they are mainly concerned with loss of semantic value, and none of them require one part of the document to acquire its content from another, which is a loss of content value
.

I feel your needs are already catered for, and thus implementation would merely lead to duplication and clutter in a language which in my opinion should stay as minimalistic as possible.


[1] XHMTL 2.0 WD -  http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml2/
	<nl> - http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml2/mod-list.html#edef_list_nl
	<label> - http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml2/mod-list.html#sec_11.5.
	hypertext/linking - http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml2/mod-hypertext.html#s_hypertextmodule



John Richard Moser wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> I'm not subscribed, please CC me responses
> 
> I've often used html and xhtml to write up reports.  I have noticed that
> in all forms of editing-- word processing and HTML-- that a built-in
> reference system is not generally a feature.  I would like to correct
> this in xhtml in a simple and effective manner.
> 
> Here is my basic set of alterations to facilitate writing reports and
> papers in xhtml.  The only modifications are two new tags and two new
> attributes to <li> in the context of one of the new tags.
> 
> I'm out of my league here, to say the least.  I don't know what else
> would be good for reports, possibly <ref type="block" cite="reference">
> or such, along with extra attributes to <li> to handle what to put after
> such blocks; but I want to keep it simple here at first.  We can worry
> about screwing with <ref> to make it do more complicated things if it's
> determined that these extensions would actually be useful in the first
> place.  First, of course, we have to figure out what those "more
> complicated things" should be.
> 
> The goals I'm aiming at are pretty blatantly to allow the generation of
> reports similar to certain papers[1] I've encountered.  Sometimes I'm
> simply uninterested in using a word processor to do things, especially
> since publishing such things as xhtml is a faster and easier way to
> disperse the information than dumping an RTF to a PDF or a PS and
> putting it up for download.
> 
> [1] http://woct.sourceforge.net/xoops/modules/mylinks/visit.php?cid=2&lid=1
> - --
> All content of all messages exchanged herein are left in the
> Public Domain, unless otherwise explicitly stated.
> 
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> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> XHTML Report Language
> An XHTML extension for any future version of XHTML
> 
> The XHTML Report Language is a set of extensions to XHTML intended to
> facilitate the writing of reports in XHTML.  These include creating
> documentation for references.
> 
> 
> TAG:  rl
> Reference List
> This tag is similar to <ol>, in that it creates an ordered list.  It differs,
> however, in that this list is later used to generate other page content for
> reference documentation.
> 
> Syntax:
> ~
> <rl>
>  <li name="name" uri="uri">
>  Title
>  </li>
> </rl>
> ~
> 
> Potential output:
> ~
> 1. Title
> ~
> 
> Further details:
> The text "Title" above is a link to (uri).
> 
> 
> 
> TAG:  li
> List Item
> The <li> tag must be extended to allow the "name" and "uri" attributes in the
> <rl> context.  To be consistent, "uri" may become "src" or "href" to match
> other tags; however, the "uri" nomenclature is appropriate in its own right.
> 
> The "name" attribute will allow the <ref> tag to properly generate a Reference
> to the reference entry.
> 
> The "uri" attribute will define a Universal Resource Identifier to associate
> with the reference.
> 
> Syntax:
> See <rl>
> 
> Potential output:
> See <rl>
> 
> Further details:
> The <li> tag in this context could become <re> instead; this is a trivial
> implementation detail.
> 
> 
> 
> TAG:  ref
> Reference
> The <ref> tag will insert internal citation, optionally associated with text.
> This is different from <cite>, which is a simple formatting tag.
> 
> The "cite" attribute will indicate the name of the reference to cite.
> 
> Syntax:
> ~
> <p>
> The <ref cite="w3paper">W3 paper</ref> says that &lt;cite> is a formatting
> tag.  <ref cite="w3paper" /> also says that &lt;em> is a formatting tag.
> </p>
> 
> <rl>
>  <li name="w3paper" uri="http://w3.com/paper.txt">
>  W3 Paper on xhtml
>  </li>
> </rl>
> ~
> 
> Potential output:
> ~
> The W3 paper[1] says that <cite> is a formatting tag. [1] also says that <em>
> is a formatting tag.
> 
> 1.  W3 Paper on xhtml
> ~
> 
> Further details:
> The text, "W3 paper;" the "1" in both occurrences of "[1];" and the text, "W3
> Paper on xhtml" are all links to (http://w3.com/paper.txt) in the above
> output.
> 
> The Web browser would not be able to render the <ref> tag properly until the
> <rl> list was fully or partially parsed.  Web browsers currently adjust the
> page layout as images are loaded, sometimes having to find out if an image
> exists and either insert or remove the "alt" text; so the issue of having to
> alter the rendered output after the page is loaded is not a new consideration,
> and thus is not a problem.
Received on Wednesday, 24 November 2004 03:24:41 GMT

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