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Re: Display Properties of Elements

From: Karl Dubost <karl@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 19:09:16 -0400
Message-Id: <501C0F14-E1B4-11D8-91B3-000A95718F82@w3.org>
Cc: www-html@w3.org
To: Jukka K.Korpela <jkorpela@cs.tut.fi>

Le 29 juil. 2004, ą 17:09, Jukka K. Korpela a écrit :
> So I think the primary question is how quotations should be presented 
> in
> markup, not whether the distinction between block and inline quotation
> should be present in HTML markup.

And lists and many things.

a paragraph has you said is quite “well defined” in english. Though I 
don't know how linguist would define it, if we want to really go down 
the theory side. See below for one possible definition in English [1], 
in French [2]

Though here we just gave the definition for two western languages. I 
wonder if paragraphs has a meaning in Japanese, in Chinese, in some 
African scripts, etc. The fact is that often HTML has been designed by 
a western world for a western world, luckily enough we can use unicode 
for many things. But for example, I can't use the element q properly in 
french.

q should be rendered as « first level ‹second level› first level » in 
french context, it's not the case.
	-> Browsers don't implement it correctly most of the time.
The CSS should give the possibility to at least give the good code for 
it.
	-> Unfortunately most browsers don't implement it.
Even the english (default) rendering is wrong. q gives " " instead of “ 
”

I wonder if a study of concepts across languages has been made and if 
paragraphs, lists, etc, are really shared between cultures. Another 
thing which is struggling me is why, we should keep things like 'samp', 
'code', when 'date' or 'street' is not present. How many persons in the 
world will use 'code' compared to 'date'

My distinction between Semantics and Structure hits the wall for you ;)

So we will have to agree on words before:

	* Meaning less: div, span (hmmm except when they have a class, let's 
say User Semantics controlled?)
	* Structure, Basic level semantics
	* Meaning, Specialized level semantics (can contain basic level)





[1]
==========================
*** Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) ***
Paragraph \Par"a*graph\, n. [F. paragraphe, LL. paragraphus, fr.
    Gr. para`grafos (sc. grammh`) a line or stroke drawn in the
    margin, fr. paragra`fein to write beside; para` beside +
    gra`fein to write. See {Para-}, and {Graphic}, and cf.
    {Paraph}.]
    1. Originally, a marginal mark or note, set in the margin to
       call attention to something in the text, e. g., a change
       of subject; now, the character [para], commonly used in
       the text as a reference mark to a footnote, or to indicate
       the place of a division into sections.

    Note: This character is merely a modification of a capital P
          (the initial of the word paragraph), the letter being
          reversed, and the black part made white and the white
          part black for the sake of distinctiveness.

    2. A distinct part of a discourse or writing; any section or
       subdivision of a writing or chapter which relates to a
       particular point, whether consisting of one or many
       sentences. The division is sometimes noted by the mark ?,
       but usually, by beginning the first sentence of the
       paragraph on a new line and at more than the usual
       distance from the margin.

    3. A brief composition complete in one typographical section
       or paragraph; an item, remark, or quotation comprised in a
       few lines forming one paragraph; as, a column of news
       paragraphs; an editorial paragraph.
==========================

[2]
==========================
paragraphe n. m.

• 1283;  paragrafe v. 1220; lat. médiév.  paragraphus, gr.  paragraphos 
« écrit ą côté »

1¨ Division d'un écrit en prose, offrant une certaine unité de pensée 
ou de composition. Paragraphes d'un chapitre. Les alinéas* d'un 
paragraphe. Paragraphe de la Bible. ř verset.

2¨ Signe typographique (§) présentant le numéro d'un paragraphe.
==========================




-- 
Karl Dubost - http://www.w3.org/People/karl/
W3C Conformance Manager
*** Be Strict To Be Cool ***

Received on Thursday, 29 July 2004 19:09:19 GMT

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