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Re: [XHTML2] On the subject of handling quotations

From: Lachlan Hunt <lachlan.hunt@iinet.net.au>
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 01:42:55 +1100
Message-ID: <3FDB256F.2070208@iinet.net.au>
To: ernestcline@mindspring.com
Cc: W3C HTML List <www-html@w3.org>

Ernest Cline wrote:
> Given the ubiquity of the plain single quote and the plain double quote
> as a result of computers, I feel using those as default quote marks
> is acceptable.  Their meaning is unmistakable and they clearly indicate
> nested quotes.  That they are not the preferred quote marks is
> irrelevant.  The preferred quote marks can as you have observed
> be indicated by styling.

   This, I can agree with, though, I would like to know the exact 
reasons for why the WG decided that no quotes should be added by 
default.  Having default style sheets like (not exactly):
* { quotes: "\"" "'"; }
quote:before, blockquote:before { content: open-quote; }
quote:after, blockquote:after { content: close-quote; }


>>   As for the difference between <blockquote> and <quote>, if the 
>>difference is just *presentational* then a single <quote> element could 
>>replace the need for two elements.  This can be handled by the author 
>>supplying an appropriate class and CSS.
> 
> 
> Maybe yes, maybe no.  Quotations need to be available for both
> block and inline content.  However it may be necessary to have separate
> versions so that elements that need to have only inline content
> get only inline content.  If we were using SGML instead of XML,
> I would totally agree with you, but the apparent inability to enforce
> restrictions on non-direct descendants in XML may make retaining the
> block/inline distinction if needed by other elements.

   Assuming the distinction is only presentational, since <blockquote> 
can now be used within <p> just like <quote>, would it really matter 
whether or not it was a quote was block or inline?  Although 
<blockquote> currently can't be used within other inline elements, like 
<quote> can, this may only be a minor difference, and thus it still may 
not matter whether the quote is block or inline.  If this is the case, 
then, obviously, we'd only need the one element.  Also, as you suggested 
in an earlier post, the content model could be:

> (Block*) | (PCDATA|Inline)*

   Which solves the problem of mixing other block and inline elements like:

<quote><strong>inlne text</strong>
<p>paragraph text</p></quote>

because it restrics the author to having only block, or only inline 
content, thus kind of making a distinction between block and inline 
quotes, but without the need for two elements.
   (I am however aware of the current styling problems of not being able 
to apply style based on an elements children, but this could be handled 
by an author with appropriate classes, but that doesn't help the default 
styling by UAs.  I'll have to think about this some more.)

   Also, there's the issue about whether or not if the distinction 
between <blockquote> and <quote> is removed, can the distinction also be 
removed from all other <blockelement>/<element> combinations?

CYA
...Lachy
Received on Saturday, 13 December 2003 10:03:48 GMT

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