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(unknown charset) Re: Comments on XHTML 2.0 Working Draft

From: (unknown charset) Jonas Jørgensen <jonasj@jonasj.dk>
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 12:59:24 +0200
Message-ID: <3D524F0C.1060403@jonasj.dk>
To: (unknown charset) www-html@w3.org

Alexander Savenkov wrote:
>> There is nothing wrong with the deprecation mechanism, slating something for 
>> later removal. Though where we could do so with no harm, features have been 
>> removed outright. In the case of the list start and value attributes, 
>> deprecated features are back in.
> Excuse me, Jonny, do you mean XHTML 1.0 Transitional and XHTML-Mod?
> As I see it XHTML 2.0 is based on XHTML 1.1 which is based on
> XHTML 1.0 Strict which is free from 'start' on 'ol' and 'value'
> on 'li'. If XHTML 2.0 is about to return to these attributes I guess
> it's worth writing that it *is* meant to be backwards-compatible and
> *is not* meant to use stylesheets.

I see no mention of 'start' or 'value' attributes in 
<http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml2/mod-list.html>.

>>> 17.1. The hr element
>>> --------------------
>>> While it's clearly explained why the 'sub' and 'sup' elements are left
>>> in the spec, no reason provided for the 'hr' element. I doubt there
>>> are languages using horizontal rule, and since HTML 2.0 [3] I haven't seen
>>> any intelligible explanations. I kindly ask you to provide
>>> reasoning for keeping 'hr'.
> 
> Jonny Axelsson:
>> hr is having a precarious existence right now. I suspect a "Save the hr!" or 
>> "Kill the hr!" campaign could have an impact (send your campaign funds 
>> to...). Is it purely decorational, does it have some semantic meaning as a 
>> separator element, or is it simply too convenient or entrenched to remove?
> Just to add fuel to the flame (right you are Jonny, fights are
> expected), 'hr' seems to be purely presentational no matter what media
> you use. Is there a need to remind everyone of the means to avoid 'hr'
> usage (read: CSS)? With the introduction of 'section' and other
> structural constructs (eliminating the need for 'div's and such), 'hr'
> represents an absolute anachronism.

Every argument for deprecating <br> in favor of <line> also applies to 
deprecating <hr> in favor of <section>. The only structural use for <hr> 
is as a section separator -- just like <br> is a line separator. With 
XHTML 2.0, we have the <line> and <section> elements for marking up 
lines and sections, thus <br> and <hr> are not needed anymore. <br> is 
deprecated -- why not <hr>?

/Jonas

-- 
I have switched banks and indicated as reason for closing the account 
that their home page is not w3c compliant.
- Hugo Van Woerkom
Received on Thursday, 8 August 2002 06:58:12 GMT

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