W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-html@w3.org > April 2000

RE: Ignoring empty paragraphs

From: Braden N. McDaniel <braden@endoframe.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 04:00:28 -0400 (EDT)
To: Matthew Brealey <webmaster@richinstyle.com>
cc: www-html@w3.org, www-style@w3.org
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10004120351340.26050-100000@boneone.endoframe.com>
On Tue, 11 Apr 2000, Matthew Brealey wrote:

> Ian Graham wrote:
> > On Mon, 10 Apr 2000, Braden N. McDaniel wrote:
> > > On Mon, 10 Apr 2000, Matthew Brealey wrote:
> > >
> > > > Jason Orendorff writes:
> > > > > There is already a CSS property 'empty-cells' that affects how empty
> > > > > table cells are rendered.  Perhaps there should be an
> > > > >
> > > > >   P:empty { display: none; }
> > > >
> > > > This is not necessary. Empty elements are 'ignored' by CSS, at least
> > > > with all current implementation's (except Netscape 4, which is so
> > > > completely broken that it will give different margins depending on
> > > > whether or not you include end tags on elements such as P) UA style
> > > > sheets.
> > >
> > > You are making assumptions, though, about the UA default style sheet here.
> > > There is nothing in the specs to prevent a UA default style sheet from
> > > including a rule
> > >
> > >   p { border: 1px black solid }
> 
> Yes. But they don't. And they never will do so it's not really relevant/

It's absolutely relevant. The spec permits it. You can't handwave it away
saying, "That'll never happen." The spec allows it to happen. It could
happen.

But if the idea of this occuring in a UA style sheet is just too
far-fetched for you, perhaps considering this in the user style sheet will
bring it down to earth? The effect is the same.

> > > Granted, this is an edge case. But the bottom line is that your assertion
> > > that an "empty" pseudo-class is unnecessary hinges on unspecified
> > > behavior.
> 
> Something is necessary if it is useful. It seems that the reason that
> this is wanted is for sanctimonious reasons of 'Thou shalt not produce
> tag soup'.

The "empty" pseudo-class has been suggested because, if the clause in
question in the HTML 4 spec refers to document *display* (styling) rather
than *interpretation*, we have a case where CSS does not fulfill the
formatting requirements of HTML 4.

> As such the pseudo-class is useless. No-one would use it.

*If* this is a style issue, browser authors creating HTML browsers using
a CSS style system ought to be using something like this.

-- 
Braden N. McDaniel
braden@endoframe.com
<URL:http://www.endoframe.com>
Received on Wednesday, 12 April 2000 03:56:34 GMT

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