W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-html@w3.org > August 1998

RE: OBJECT, inheritance, and rendering

From: Braden N. McDaniel <braden@shadow.net>
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 14:03:46 -0700
To: "'David Perrell'" <davidp@earthlink.net>, <www-html@w3.org>
Message-ID: <001a01bdbfeb$5fc0c2d0$7422dbd0@bonezero>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: www-html-request@w3.org
> [mailto:www-html-request@w3.org]On Behalf
> Of David Perrell
> Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 1998 12:40 PM
> To: www-html@w3.org
> Subject: Re: OBJECT, inheritance, and rendering

> Walter Ian Kaye wrote:
> >What is a non-document? Is a PDF file not a document? It
> sure isn't text...
> The most general dictionary definition of 'document' is "a
> writing conveying
> information", so I suppose a non-document is "a non-writing
> conveying no
> information". So a PDF could be considered a document, but an
> image would
> only be a semi-non-document unless it were inappropriate,
> confusing, or
> completely transparent.

In light of this ambiguity (what is a document?), I think it is reasonable
to infer that when section 13.5 uses the term "document," it is referring
only to HTML documents. While section 13.5 does not explicitly make this
distinction, I think some of the language used suggests it:

"Sometimes, rather than linking to a document, an author may want to embed
it directly into a primary HTML document."

Also, the only example given is of an HTML document.

I think the following clarifications need to be made WRT how OBJECT handles
media types:

First, what is a subwindow? For the purposes of this discussion, can we
agree that it is a window that has the same properties as an outer window,
but resides inside it and is wholly independent of the outer window (with
the exception of its size, which might be dependent on the size of the outer
window)? I think this definition is reasonable given the way the HTML 4 spec
uses the term (which is, notably, as an *example* of what it is describing,
and not a required model for implementation).

If we accept that the above are accurate interpretations of the spec, then
it is noteworthy that the way media types other than text/html should be
included in the document is described with the same degree of specificity as
is given text/html.

Should these other media types reside in a "subwindow"? Or more
specifically, should such an inclusion be "entirely independent of the
document in which it is embedded"? I suggest that the answer is "no," for
reasons regarding the treatment of transparency that I have previously

But whether you agree with that or not, the most important thing here is
that it looks like the spec doesn't say. Meaning, IMO, we really need a

Received on Tuesday, 4 August 1998 16:57:33 UTC

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