Re: HTML4.0 draft: comments re: inclusion of frames

David Marsh (
14 Sep 97 22:03:57 +0000

Date: 14 Sep 97 22:03:57 +0000
From: David Marsh <>
In-Reply-To: <>
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Re: HTML4.0 draft: comments re: inclusion of frames

On 09-Sep-97 10:07:57, (Arnaud Le Hors) said:
[Source: email, Subject was: Re: HTML4.0 draft: comments re: inclusion of frames]

>> I am very disappointed and alarmed at the inclusion of Netscape's 'frame'
>> construct within the draft HTML4.0 specification.
>> I wish to express, in the strongest terms, my concern that frames should
>> not be allowed to enter the rulebook of standard HTML.

>I just would like to point out that the "standard HTML" is what the W3C
>members want it to be.

Thank you for your response.

I am aware that HTML does evolve to take account of the desires of the W3C
members, but I would hope that the input of ordinary users and authors (such
as those on this list) is also taken into consideration, otherwise there is 
very little point in having such a list ;-(

I'm also a little disappointed that you made no comment on my suggestion
that an element similar to the HTML3.0 <BANNER> should be recreated to allow
for the most common frame use, namely to provide an additional navigation

My main concern with frames (apart from their non-degradability, which is
important in itself), is that, unlike <BANNER> (which logically would imply
only one banner per document), there can be multiple frames per 'page' which
can lead to some grotesque 'designs' with multiple frames for logos,
adverts, etc.

This kind of overloaded 'page' takes long enough to download and layout on
a graphical browser, and unfortunately, I suspect that the task of making
meaningful layouting of this type of document in a textual browser would be
well-nigh impossible. At least a browser like Lynx could, I imagine, easily
make sense of pages with a single BANNER to the top or bottom of the


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