Re: HTML forms

Walter Ian Kaye (
Mon, 3 Mar 1997 18:11:52 -0800 (PST)

Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 18:11:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Walter Ian Kaye <>
Subject: Re: HTML forms
In-Reply-To: <>
Message-ID: <>

On Mon, 3 Mar 1997, nemo/Joel N. Weber II wrote:
>    Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 18:04:40 -0500 ()
>    From: Dave Raggett <>
>    cc:,
>    One way around this is to switch to a navigation model. A sequence of
>    key strokes traverses the hierarchy taking you to the specific element
>    you intended. Microsoft Windows uses this approach with ALT+key for
>    accessing menus etc.
> I don't really want to see a hierarchy of keystrokes.  It probably will get
> too hard to navigate.

"Hierarchy" probably needed qualification as "two-level". Either you're in
"menu mode" or "window mode". I think the problem comes in indicating to the
user which mode they're in. The user must *never* be unsure which mode is
the current one. Perhaps disable menus to the right of "Edit" while the Edit
menu contains the mode toggle command for getting out of window mode?

>    On Windows ALT+key is appropriate. On other platforms other choices
>    are needed. For the Mac an additional modifier key may be needed to
>    avoid clashes with global command keys. Another combination may be
>    appropriate for X11. The spec is being revised to make these issues
>    clearer.
> I would suggest we recomend control on both the Mac and on X11.
> In theory, control is reserved for macro packages on a Mac.  But I've
> never seen a macro package that uses the control key; the control
> key is usually only useful for telnet.

Gee, I set up Ctrl-Shift-Q to move the active window of the frontmost app
to the upper-left corner of my screen. I use Ctrl-Cmd-E to launch Eudora.
I use Ctrl-singleclick on a window titlebar to roll up the window (using
the WindowShade system extension). Sure I have function keys across the
top of my keyboard, but they're hidden behind lots of 2x1.5" Post-It(tm)
notes! <G> However, all my Ctrl+[alphanumeric] assignments do have an
additional modifier, so that I can still use the Control key to enter
ASCII 0-31 characters in those programs which can make use of 'em.

>    > The label proposal makes sense to me; except that putting the accesskey
>    > on the label and not the object it describes makes no sense to me at all.
>    This is debateable.
> But the key activates the button, not the label describing the button.
> If you click on the button, something happens.  If you click on its label,
> I don't think anything happens.  So why would keystrokes make more sense
> on the label than the button?

I think this is more an issue of perception and programming rather than an
issue of logic. Is it easier for software to determine what label precedes
an object or what object follows a label? Does it really matter?

    Walter Ian Kaye <>     Programmer - Excel, AppleScript,
          Mountain View, CA                         ProTERM, FoxPro, HTML     Musician - Guitarist, Songwriter