Re: popup chit chat

Samuel Rinnetmaki (m0rk0@clinet.fi)
Sat, 23 Mar 1996 18:49:58 +0200 (EET)


Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 18:49:58 +0200 (EET)
From: Samuel Rinnetmaki <m0rk0@clinet.fi>
To: www-html mailing-list <www-html@w3.org>
Subject: Re: popup chit chat
Message-Id: <Pine.BSF.3.91.960323184746.22665B-100000@cantina.clinet.fi>


>Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 18:13:53 +0100
>From: cbeeth@jacbee.be (Carl Beeth)
>To: www-html@w3.org
>Subject: RE: popup chit chat
>Message-Id: <v02130501ad6f52a07f4a@[194.183.226.253]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii"
>content-length: 2986
>
>Some more thoughts on Heikki's Great Pop-Up proposal.
>
>First of all, I can not stress enough how important I feel the Pop-up
>windows are. This is something I have been waiting for ever since I starte=
d
>doing HTML.

I suggest you get your hands on the file:
                draft-ietf-html-relrev-00.txt

I understand it is a "valid" draft, and the subject
is still open for comments.  The file says:

   "   This document will expire before 7 June 1996.   "

You can search the file with the keyword "FOOTNOTE".

(Well, I=B4ll mail you that part in private)

>1) Would it be possible to include the HTML of the pop-up in the same file
>as the HTML page itself (maybe between </BODY> and </HTML>) as this would
>increase speed for slow connections.
>Alternatively (or maybe additionally) one could maybe have one HTML file
>that contained a whole bunch of footnotes, definitions or whatever.

REL=3DFOOTNOTE would allow both, since there is a normal
link in question.

An example:
---
When I want to get connected, I turn on my
       <A REL=3DFOOTNOTE HREF=3D"dictionary.html#modem">
        modem
       </A>.
---

>One rather simple way to solve this would be to use a custom cursor for th=
e
>pop-ups (on Netscape MAC the default cursor is an arrow and "link" cursor
>is a pointing hand, I could imagine a pointing hand with a miniature windo=
w
>under it)

And if you marked the popup links differently from
normal links and even used "custom cursors", how
should non-GUI user agents handle pop-ups?  They
could easily just ignore the REL=3DFOOTNOTE argument
and load a new page - maybe not the way the author
of the page would have wanted it, but in my mind
this is the best way of showing possible pop-ups
without graphics.

>3) <Bert writes: do we want to specify how long the pop-up stays on screen=
?
>Until the mouse is released? But then you can't click in it any more.>
>IMO This would only be possible if the content of the Pop-up is embedded i=
n
>the document as it would make for a very long click for people with slow
>connections.  And anyway the second point is totally right.

And what about those of us without a mouse?  And
anyway, I don=B4t think this has nothing to do with
HTML.  It is up to the user agent how and how long
to show a pop-up window.

The problem that remains unsolved when using the
REL=3DFOOTNOTE is, that it points to a whole new
page or a part of a page.  When used in purposes
of a dictionary, you would have to make each keyword
a page of its own or additionally point to a NAME
anchor.  When the latter, the whole dictionary page
would appear in your pop-up window.  Your browser
could however be able to cope with that.

Since there has been a smell of a fight and a lot of
disagreement about the INSERT option, it will probably
take a while before anyone will support footnotes that
are HTML inside of HTML (which would be the nicest way,
though).  So, how about trying to manage with what we
already have - REL=3DFOOTNOTE?  (Well, it has already=20
made its way to a draft, wow.  We still don=B4t "have"
it since no browser seems to support it.)


        - Samuel Rinnetm=E4ki -

---

ADDRESS:  Samuel Rinnetm=E4ki    EMAIL:  m0rk0@clinet.fi
          Jalkajousentie 11    HPAGE:  http://www.clinet.fi/~m0rk0
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