Re: Container vs. Empty Element

CyberWeb (web@sowebo.CHARM.NET)
Mon, 5 Dec 1994 10:24:57 -0500 (EST)


Message-Id: <9412051025.AA09051@sowebo.charm.net>
Subject: Re: Container vs. Empty Element
To: marym@Finesse.COM
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 10:24:57 -0500 (EST)
From: "CyberWeb" <web@sowebo.CHARM.NET>
Cc: www-html@www0.cern.ch
In-Reply-To: <9412051446.AA01714@thyme.finesse.com> from "Mary Morris" at Dec 5, 94 03:50:21 pm

Mary Morris wrote:
> 
> 
> Can someone please tell me how to know if a tag should be
> a container or an empty element? I have looked at every
> DTD that I could find and they don't seem to indicate what
> a tag is there. I know that there are things like <em> that
> are absolutly containers, and that there are things like
> <p> which are becoming containers (chrysilis I guess). But 
> what I want to know is how to tell the ones that should
> never be a container. Like <hr>. I would think that it should
> never be a container.

	Why not? I could imagine it turning into a frame around 
	the contained text.
> 
> Secondarily, does anyone have an absolute list of what can
> be embeded in what? 
> 
> For example, should I use:
> 
> <li><h2> Blah </h2> or 
> <h2><li> Blah 
> <li> Blah </h2>
> 
	If I have understood the "HTML DTD Reference (Level 2)" at
	http://www.hal.com/products/sw/olias/Build-html/t0jrrYBc2I9X3cS.html
	(!!) then neither is valid. This document explicitly shows what may
	be contained, and what it is allowed in content of..

	You can find a number of authoritative HTML 2.0 documents at 
	http://www.hal.com/products/sw/olias/Build-html/buhC2XBDmmF84aK.html
	which in turn can be found at http://www.hal.com/~markg/WebTechs/
	where they present the famous and excellent HTML Validation Service.

	In general I'd like to remind you that you can find such WWW developer
	resources at http://www.charm.net/~web/ and if not then please let
	me know..

> Does </li> make a difference above? If I want to make a 
> head2 list item and have the text after the end of the head2
> still indent like a list item, is that allowed? 
> 
> I am not looking for answers to specific formatting questions here.
> I am trying to give examples of behavior that I have seen, and 
> get a general rule of thumb on how it know what it should
> do.

	I don't think one can expect a general rule of thumb to exist.
	I have made the mistake of extrapolating behaviour from one HTML
	element to another, only to find I was plain wrong. I don't think
	this meant I was (totally) stupid or that Dan botched it; rather
	that these things are subtle beyond simple rules of thumb..

	Best thing, I've found, is to use their validator; it's at
	http://www.hal.com/users/connolly/html-test/service/validation-form.html

Alan.
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