W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-html-editor@w3.org > October to December 2007

Re: Comment on XML 2 Events

From: Mark Birbeck <mark.birbeck@x-port.net>
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 10:52:01 +0000
Message-ID: <a707f8300711260252i275c8374pce707e2b7a07c06@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Richard Schwerdtfeger" <schwer@us.ibm.com>
Cc: "Roland Merrick" <roland_merrick@uk.ibm.com>, public-xhtml2@w3.org, public-xhtml2-request@w3.org, www-html-editor@w3.org

Hi Richard and Roland,

The only thing I'd watch out for though, is that the semantics are
different. A 'hint' could well be a description of the purpose of some
item, but it might just as easily be something like "don't forget to
open door before walking through it". In XForms 'hint' has an aspect
of behaviour about it; true, it is not prescriptive about what the
behaviour should be, but that doesn't mean it would be correct to say
that the behaviour aspect is absent.

My understanding of what we want from 'purpose' is some description of
what something is _for_. The fact that this could also be rendered to
the user seems a secondary--but welcome--feature. Hints on the other
hand are defined for no purpose other than to be rendered to the user,
so in many situations it would be quite correct to use them.

So, if an author wants to render something to the user, then 'hint' is
the right thing to use. But if the author is merely documenting the
purpose of some script, I think something else is needed--perhaps
'label' with some RDFa.

Regards,

Mark


On 25/11/2007, Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Roland,
>
>  I agree that this is much better than just having a <purpose> element and it is consistent with XForms. Currently, platform accessiblity API on Windows (IAccessible2) and Linux allow us to provide a descrpiption of the handler which you would call <hint>. The label allows a short name for the function. We could add that capability in the platform accessibility apis.
>
>  In ODF we provide short names and long descriptions (like hints) for all drawing objects and image maps links. Where this is extremely valuable is when a user, who is blind, needs to make a decision as to whether to perform an action or not - such as a purchase. Role is a type applied to objects and really does not apply to event handlers.
>
>  So, if this is a proposal I support it.
>
>  Rich
>
>
>  Rich Schwerdtfeger
>  Distinguished Engineer, SWG Accessibility Architect/Strategist
>  Chair, IBM Accessibility Architecture Review  Board
>  blog: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/page/schwer
>  Roland Merrick <roland_merrick@uk.ibm.com>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Roland Merrick <roland_merrick@uk.ibm.com>
>  Sent by: public-xhtml2-request@w3.org
>
> 11/14/2007 07:42 AM
>
>
>
> To
>  Mark Birbeck <Mark.Birbeck@x-port.net>, Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS
>
>
> cc
>  public-xhtml2@w3.org, www-html-editor@w3.org
>
>
> Subject
>  Re: Comment on XML 2 Events
>
>
>
>  Greetings, I do not seem to be able to find a version of the XML Events 2 specification that includes a <purpose> element. However, I believe that the notion is a good one though I do not believe that it goes far enough.
>
>  XForms allows three pieces of information to be associated with an action, each of which can be used in different circumstances. These are the <label>, <hint> and <help> elements [1].
>
>  The latest version of the XML Events 2 spec is lacking in examples in the Handlers section [2]. Something along the lines of the following is what I have in mind:
>
>  <action id="doThis">
>    <label>Do This</label>
>    <hint>performing this action will delight you.</hint>
>    ...
>  </action>
>
>  and to allow the same ability with a script handler. . .
>
>  <action id="doThat">
>    <label>Do That</label>
>    <hint>performing this action will delight you.</hint>
>    <script type="application/x-javascript">
>     doactivate(event);
>    </script>
>  </action>
>
>  [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/xforms/#ui-commonelems
>  [2] http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-xml-events-20070216/#s_handler_module_elements
>
>  Regards, Roland
>
>
>
> Mark Birbeck <mark.birbeck@x-port.net>
>  Sent by: public-xhtml2-request@w3.org
>
> 11/11/2007 21:53
>
> ToRichard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com>
>
> ccpublic-xhtml2@w3.org, www-html-editor@w3.org
>
> SubjectRe: Comment on XML 2 Events
>
>
>
>
>
>  Hi Rich,
>
>  Yes, I just re-read your email, and realised what you were saying.
>  Sorry about that.
>
>  However, using an element in this way sounds just like the plain text
>  equivalent of @role, which therefore means it would probably have
>  wider applicability than just <action>. I wonder if we should look at
>  trying to generalise this.
>
>  Any thoughts on that?
>
>  Regards,
>
>  Mark
>
>
>  --
>    Mark Birbeck, formsPlayer
>
>    mark.birbeck@formsPlayer.com | +44 (0) 20 7689 9232
>    http://www.formsPlayer.com | http://internet-apps.blogspot.com
>
>    standards. innovation.
>
>  On 11 Nov 2007, at 21:46, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote:
>
>  > Hi Mark,
>  >
>  > Not the same. purpose is just the description. When providing the
>  > information to an assistive technology we can enumerate the named
>  > actions.
>  >
>  > Rich
>  >
>  >
>  > Rich Schwerdtfeger
>  > Distinguished Engineer, SWG Accessibility Architect/Strategist
>  > Chair, IBM Accessibility Architecture Review Board
>  > blog: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/page/schwer
>  > <graycol.gif>Mark Birbeck <mark.birbeck@x-port.net>
>  >
>  >
>  > Mark Birbeck <mark.birbeck@x-port.net>
>  > 11/11/2007 03:26 PM
>  >
>  > <ecblank.gif>
>  > To
>  > <ecblank.gif>
>  > Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS
>  > <ecblank.gif>
>  > cc
>  > <ecblank.gif>
>  > public-xhtml2@w3.org, www-html-editor@w3.org
>  > <ecblank.gif>
>  > Subject
>  > <ecblank.gif>
>  > Re: Comment on XML 2 Events
>  > <ecblank.gif><ecblank.gif>
>  >
>  > Hi Rich,
>  >
>  > Are you sure it wasn't consciously dropped in favour of @role? It's
>  > the kind of thing we'd do. :)
>  >
>  > Regards,
>  >
>  > Mark
>  >
>  > --
>  >   Mark Birbeck, formsPlayer
>  >
>  >   mark.birbeck@formsPlayer.com | +44 (0) 20 7689 9232
>  >   http://www.formsPlayer.com | http://internet-apps.blogspot.com
>  >
>  >   standards. innovation.
>  >
>  > On 9 Nov 2007, at 20:32, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote:
>  >
>  > > The <purpose> element was dropped from actions in the XML Events 2
>  > > specification. If you recall we had a purpose element as a child of
>  > > the old handler element which is now called <action>. We need
>  > > purpose to be a child of this.
>  > >
>  > > <purpose> would contain text describing the purpose of the action
>  > > which could be supported by a platform accessibility api to list
>  > > the actions that can beformed on a document object.
>  > >
>  > > I would request that this be added.
>  > >
>  > > Rich
>  > >
>  > > Rich Schwerdtfeger
>  > > Distinguished Engineer, SWG Accessibility Architect/Strategist
>  > > Chair, IBM Accessibility Architecture Review Board
>  > > blog: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/page/schwer
>  > >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  ________________________________

>
>
> Unless stated otherwise above:
>  IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598.
>  Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



-- 
  Mark Birbeck, formsPlayer

  mark.birbeck@formsPlayer.com | +44 (0) 20 7689 9232
  http://www.formsPlayer.com | http://internet-apps.blogspot.com

  standards. innovation.
Received on Monday, 26 November 2007 10:52:21 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Tuesday, 27 March 2012 18:17:56 GMT