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Re: Noframes - Error ?

From: Ian B. Jacobs <ij@w3.org>
Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 19:31:52 -0400
Message-ID: <3B479BE8.54A23949@w3.org>
To: Guenter Cornett <cornett@bambusspiele.de>
CC: www-html-editor@w3.org
Guenter Cornett wrote:
> 
> refer to:
> http://www.w3.org/TR/1998/REC-html40-19980424/present/frames.html#h-16.4.1

Hi Guenter,

My replies preceded by "IJ:".
 
> Hi,
> 
> I try to write a short HTML-guide for a HTML-teacher. I just had a look
> at
> your site for the correct syntax of noframes (below or within frameset).
> 
> I found:
> 
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Frameset//EN"
>      "http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/frameset.dtd">
>   <HTML>
>   <HEAD>
>   <TITLE>A simple frameset document</TITLE>
>   </HEAD>
>   <FRAMESET cols="20%, 80%">
>     <FRAMESET rows="100, 200">
>         <FRAME src="contents_of_frame1.html">
>         <FRAME src="contents_of_frame2.gif">
>     </FRAMESET>
>     <FRAME src="contents_of_frame3.html">
>     <NOFRAMES>
>         <P>This frameset document contains:
>         <UL>
>            <LI><A href="contents_of_frame1.html">Some neat contents</A>
>            <LI><IMG src="contents_of_frame2.gif" alt="A neat image">
>            <LI><A href="contents_of_frame3.html">Some other neat
> contents</A>
>         </UL>
>     </NOFRAMES>
>   </FRAMESET>
>   </HTML>
> 
> I've two questions:
> 
> Main question: Isn't there a body-tag missing within the noframes-tag ?

IJ: Yes, I think you are correct, since this is a frameset DTD document,
not
a transitional DTD document.

 
>     <NOFRAMES>
> <BODY>
>         <P>This frameset document contains:
>         <UL>
>            <LI><A href="contents_of_frame1.html">Some neat contents</A>
>            <LI><IMG src="contents_of_frame2.gif" alt="A neat image">
>            <LI><A href="contents_of_frame3.html">Some other neat
> contents</A>
>         </UL>
> </BODY>
>     </NOFRAMES>
> 
> If you don't place a body-tag within the noframes-area a browser which
> doesn't support frames would find the head-area and below the text
> without a body.
> 
> If no body is required is it allowed ?

IJ: So I think it is required.
 
> Additional question: what's allowed/required/recommended ?

IJ: It looks like all your examples below are frameset DTD
documents.
 
> 1.) <head>...</head>
>       <frameset>...</frameset>
>       <noframes><body>...</body></noframes>

IJ: Yes (<body> required). <body> must not include a <noframes> (i.e.,
not nested noframes).
 
> 2.) <head>...</head>
>       <frameset>...
>       <noframes>...</noframes>
        </frameset>

IJ: I think this is illegal. A FRAMESET must always
include at least one FRAME or FRAMESET, and the NOFRAMES is optional.
So your example is missing a FRAME or FRAMESET.

> 3.) <head>...</head>
>       <frameset>...</frameset>
>       <noframes>...</noframes>

IJ: This is missing a BODY element as you pointed out.

> 4.) <head>...</head>
>       <frameset>...</frameset>
>       <body><noframes>...</noframes></body>

IJ: This is illegal: BODY and FRAMESET are mutually exclusive
(as children of the HTML root element) in HTML 4.

> 5.) <head>...</head>
>       <frameset>...</frameset>
>       <body>...</body>
> 
>       (of course in every case: <frame> within <frameset>)

IJ: Illegal for the same reason.
 
> Thanks for big help and sorry for simple english (I'm german).

No problem.

 _ Ian
 
> Guenter Cornett
> 
> --
> Guenter Cornett
> BAMBUS SPIELEVERLAG:   http://www.bambusspiele.de/e_index.html

-- 
Ian Jacobs (ij@w3.org)   http://www.w3.org/People/Jacobs
Cell:                    +1 917 450-8783
Received on Saturday, 7 July 2001 19:34:52 UTC

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