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RE: Design proposal: Bidi support in layout

From: Martin J. Duerst <duerst@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 12:07:23 +0900
Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.J.20001012110040.039c4be0@sh.w3.mag.keio.ac.jp>
To: w3c-html-wg@w3.org
Cc: www-html-editor@w3.org
Here is the exact wording for an erratum to HTML 4.01
according to the action item from today's :

In
http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/dirlang.html#h-8.2,

after the paragraph ending with "If a document contains
right-to-left characters, and if the user agent displays
these characters, the user agent must use the bidirectional
algorithm.", add the following paragraph:

 >>>>
Non-textual entities such as images are treated
as neutral characters, unless they have a dir attribute, in which
case they are treated as strong characters in the direction specified
in the dir attribute.
<<<<

Regards,    Martin.


>Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:49:24 +0900
>To: Jonathan Rosenne <rosenne@qsm.co.il>, ehud@unix.simonwiesel.co.il, 
>Erik van der Poel <erik@netscape.com>,Mati Allouche <matial@il.ibm.com>
>From: "Martin J. Duerst" <duerst@w3.org>
>Subject: RE: Design proposal: Bidi support in layout
>Cc: mozilla-layout@mozilla.org, mozilla-i18n@mozilla.org, 
>www-html-editor@w3.org
>
>At 00/04/18 15:45 +0200, Jonathan Rosenne wrote:
>>Unfortunately, HTML 4 is not defined this way.
>>For the IMG element, the dir refers to the
>>ALT text, not to the image.
>
>Well, I think it's better to say that it's not defined.
>But there is something relevant in CSS2, at
>file:///C|/Tech%20Report/css2/visuren.html#propdef-unicode-bidi:
>
> >>>>
>In this process, non-textual entities such as images are treated
>as neutral characters, unless their 'unicode-bidi' property has a
>value other than 'normal', in which case they are treated as strong
>characters in the 'direction' specified for the element.
><<<<
>
>Applying this back to HTML, this would mean that a 'dir' on
><img> means that the image is treated as a character with
>strong directionality. 'dir' would also apply to the alt text.
>
>If there is a need for two different directions for the image
>itself and the alt text, then that shows that there is a problem
>with free-form text in attributes. That should be converted to
>elements. There is already a solution for this in HTML4,
>namely the <object> tag.
>
>
>>As far as I understand, it is similar for all non-text object.
>
>Yes.
>
>
>>Maybe this issue should be clarified by W3C.
>
>Well, we don't want to stuff more presentation-related things
>into HTML, but want to have it separated. But bidi is at the
>boundary of semantics and presentation, so adding some text
>similar to that in CSS2 to HTML4 might make sense. I'm
>forwarding it to the editor list.
>
>Regards,   Martin.
>
>
>>Mati and Martin, please may we have your opinions.
>>
>>Jony
>>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Ehud Karni [mailto:ehud@unix.simonwiesel.co.il]
>> > Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2000 11:33 AM
>> > To: Jonathan Rosenne; Erik van der Poel
>> > Cc: mozilla-layout@mozilla.org; mozilla-i18n@mozilla.org
>> > Subject: Re: Design proposal: Bidi support in layout
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, 17 Apr 2000 23:42:54 +0200, Jonathan Rosenne 
>> <rosenne@qsm.co.il> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > I think that a non-text object imbedded within a block item should 
>> be treated
>> > as a neutral
>> > > by the bidi algorithm.
>> >
>> > A non text object should specify it is own Right-Left property. An
>> > example is graphic that is a Hebrew word (or a real graphic that
>> > should be aligned next to the Hebrew text) in a bidi sentence.
>> > For example see: www.yellowpages.co.il (they use visual and no wrap
>> > to ensure the alignment currently).
>> >
>> > Ehud.
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> >  @@@@@@ @@@ @@@@@@ @    @   Ehud Karni  Simon & Wiesel  Insurance agency
>> >      @    @      @  @@  @   Tel: +972-3-6212-757    Fax: +972-3-6292-544
>> >      @    @ @    @ @  @@    (USA)  Fax  and  voice  mail:  1-815-5509341
>> >      @    @ @    @ @    @        Better     Safe     Than     Sorry
>> >  http://www.simonwiesel.co.il    mailto:ehud@unix.simonwiesel.co.il
Received on Wednesday, 11 October 2000 23:06:18 GMT

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