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Re: Deploying (accessible) XForms today?

From: Stefano Debenedetti <ste@demaledetti.net>
Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 12:58:19 +0200
Message-ID: <4461C74B.7020508@demaledetti.net>
To: Ulrich Nicolas Lissť <u.n.l@gmx.net>
CC: Allan Beaufour <beaufour@gmail.com>, www-forms@w3.org

Ulrich Nicolas Lissť ha scritto:
> 
> Allan,
> 
> I don't think you're attacking server-side processors nor do I think you
> try to push your implementation. My only intent was to give an answer to
> your original question, from my own personal server-side view. I'm not
> interested in any religious controversy.

Questions tend to be less religious than answers in my opinion.
 
> So, to sum up: I don't think accessibility gets lost just by using
> server-side technology. Though AJAX scripting makes it a bit harder to
> build accessible web applications, it's not getting impossible just by
> using that technology.

In order to detach the discussion a bit from a religious (and business-model driven) controversy, do you have any evidence backing your claim?

I mean something one could compare with careful exams of HTML+script solutions as opposed to what the WCAG says, such as this one [1]?

ciao
ste

[1] http://juicystudio.com/experiments/invalid.html#compatible-assistive
 
> Best,
> Uli.
> 
> Allan Beaufour wrote:
> 
>>
>> On 5/9/06, Ulrich Nicolas Lissť <u.n.l@gmx.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I don't see why server-side XForms processing should loose accessibility
>>> in contrast to client-side processing. You can have non-accessible pages
>>> requiring client-side XForms processing just as perfectly accessible
>>> server-generated pages.
>>
>>
>> I'm not attacking server-side processors. If it came out like that,
>> I'm sorry. That was not intended. I do not have a hidden agenda of
>> trying to push my "own implementation". I just keep seeing these
>> "XForms should be good for accessibility -> but there is no generic
>> client support -> where does that leave us?" questions, and would like
>> to have an answer to that.
>>
>>> In fact this is what Chiba does. It attempts to generate as clean and
>>> conformant HTML 4.01 + CSS 2 pages as possible. When the client supports
>>> Javascript, Chiba automatically delivers AJAX-powered pages to improve
>>> the user experience. Of course there are still some quirks in but we try
>>> to approach 100% HTML 4.01 Strict conformance some day. The use of AJAX
>>> (or Partial Page Updates or XML Data Islands as this technique had been
>>> called when we started to explore it) is simply a means to an end.
>>>
>>> Like Erik I'm no accessibility expert but as far as I understand
>>> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10-HTML-TECHS and related specs scripting is
>>> not generally considered harmful for accessibility. There are a bunch of
>>> rules regarding the markup itself and the use of scripting. I'm
>>> convinced that it is achievable to create scripted pages aligning to
>>> accessibility rules.
>>
>>
>> Well, I hope too, but I have yet to see an "authorative" answer to it.
>>
>> -- 
>> ... Allan
>>
>>
> 
> 
Received on Wednesday, 10 May 2006 09:55:15 GMT

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