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RE: Deploying (accessible) XForms today?

From: Dharmesh Mistry <Dharmesh.Mistry@edgeipk.com>
Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 08:59:43 +0100
Message-ID: <6E80CFEBE068F44BAD79EB89CA1FD59148D422@edgemail01.uk.edgeipk.com>
To: Ulrich Nicolas Lissť <u.n.l@gmx.net>, "Allan Beaufour" <beaufour@gmail.com>
Cc: <www-forms@w3.org>
I agree we already ship a WAI compliant rendering solution, essentially server side rendering to WAI standards.
I know you know this, but Javascript does not mean forms are inaccessible, just that it's harder to design forms that are compliant without writing a naughty script ;o) So the end solution is a combination of a well generated standards compliant rendering platform coupled with good accessibility design (normally done through style sheets)


From: www-forms-request@w3.org on behalf of Ulrich Nicolas Lissť
Sent: Wed 5/10/2006 8:52 AM
To: Allan Beaufour
Cc: www-forms@w3.org
Subject: Re: Deploying (accessible) XForms today?


I don't think you're attacking server-side processors nor do I think you
try to push your implementation. My only intent was to give an answer to
your original question, from my own personal server-side view. I'm not
interested in any religious controversy.

So, to sum up: I don't think accessibility gets lost just by using
server-side technology. Though AJAX scripting makes it a bit harder to
build accessible web applications, it's not getting impossible just by
using that technology.


Allan Beaufour wrote:
> On 5/9/06, Ulrich Nicolas Lissť <u.n.l@gmx.net> wrote:
>> I don't see why server-side XForms processing should loose accessibility
>> in contrast to client-side processing. You can have non-accessible pages
>> requiring client-side XForms processing just as perfectly accessible
>> server-generated pages.
> I'm not attacking server-side processors. If it came out like that,
> I'm sorry. That was not intended. I do not have a hidden agenda of
> trying to push my "own implementation". I just keep seeing these
> "XForms should be good for accessibility -> but there is no generic
> client support -> where does that leave us?" questions, and would like
> to have an answer to that.
>> In fact this is what Chiba does. It attempts to generate as clean and
>> conformant HTML 4.01 + CSS 2 pages as possible. When the client supports
>> Javascript, Chiba automatically delivers AJAX-powered pages to improve
>> the user experience. Of course there are still some quirks in but we try
>> to approach 100% HTML 4.01 Strict conformance some day. The use of AJAX
>> (or Partial Page Updates or XML Data Islands as this technique had been
>> called when we started to explore it) is simply a means to an end.
>> Like Erik I'm no accessibility expert but as far as I understand
>> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10-HTML-TECHS and related specs scripting is
>> not generally considered harmful for accessibility. There are a bunch of
>> rules regarding the markup itself and the use of scripting. I'm
>> convinced that it is achievable to create scripted pages aligning to
>> accessibility rules.
> Well, I hope too, but I have yet to see an "authorative" answer to it.
> --
> ... Allan

Ulrich Nicolas Lissť
Received on Wednesday, 10 May 2006 08:03:08 UTC

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