W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-forms@w3.org > October 2005

Re: AJAX vs. Xforms

From: Aaron Reed <aaronr@us.ibm.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 13:43:25 -0500
To: www-forms@w3.org
Message-ID: <djr75k$4gc$1@sea.gmane.org>

Mark Birbeck wrote:
> Jasper,
> Well...I don't think there is a hard and fast rule here. Trying to add a
> customer that already exists could be a read as a client error (they
> shouldn't do it) or a server error (we won't let you do it). But either way,
> 5xx errors (at least at the SOAP level) are *not* just about the server
> going down for maintenance...and how could it tell anyone? ;)
> Anyway, the main point is it is currently defined, XForms would ignore the
> XML returned in the SOAP message for any error returned, *including* 4xx
> ones. Obviously a big problem, since SOAP over HTTP defines that an XML
> payload will be present for nearly all return codes.
> Regards,
> Mark
> -----Original Message-----
> From: www-forms-request@w3.org [mailto:www-forms-request@w3.org] On Behalf
> Of Jasper Bryant-Greene
> Sent: 26 October 2005 19:08
> To: Mark Birbeck
> Cc: 'Erik Bruchez'; www-forms@w3.org
> Subject: RE: AJAX vs. Xforms
> On Wed, 2005-10-26 at 14:29 +0100, Mark Birbeck wrote:
>>The problem my proposal attempts to solve is related to Daniel's but comes
>>at it from the other side; in SOAP over HTTP, you can get a 500 code
>>indicating that there was an error, but you can still get valid XML to
> tell
>>you about the error. SO you might get "Customer already exists" when you
> try
>>to add a new customer. I would have thought that Daniel's server would
>>ideally be doing something like that (which I think he does mention as a
> way
>>to go).
> Wouldn't it make more sense to send a 4xx error in that example, since
> the fault is with something the client did (trying to add a customer
> that already exists) rather than something the server did (e.g. going
> down for maintenance)?

Hey Mark,

I understand what you are saying, but I don't see it actually happening. 
  If I do a submission to http://xformstest.org/cgi-bin/echo.shaka, then 
with Novell's IE plugin and formsPlayer, I don't get the 
xforms-submit-error and I do see the normal HTML 404 error page.  Is 
this a bug?  I do see the value of showing the user the error message 
from the server, but I also see the value of not replacing anything in 
the document as per spec.  Here is the testcase that I tried:

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.1//EN" 
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" 
xmlns:xforms="http://www.w3.org/2002/xforms" xml:lang="en">
     <title>Submit to invalid site</title>
     <xforms:model id="m1">
       <xforms:instance xmlns="">

       <xforms:submission id="sub-empty" method="post" 
         <xforms:message level="modal" 

     <h2>Click on the submit button.  Should see a popup for 
       <xforms:submit submission="sub-empty">
         <xforms:label>Submit to bad location</xforms:label>
Received on Thursday, 27 October 2005 19:22:53 UTC

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