W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-forms@w3.org > October 2005

Re: AJAX vs. Xforms

From: Jason Eacott <jeacott@hardlight.com.au>
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 09:03:39 +0930
To: Joern Turner <joern.turner@web.de>
Cc: www-forms@w3.org
Message-ID: <435F466B.23326.8E279C5@localhost>

Thanks Joern,
	I think you have made my point far better than I did.


> I agree with you both Jason and Eric ;)
> It simply depends on your viewpoint. But there are differences which 
> should be maybe pointed out to push all these discussions about 'AJAX 
> versus XFORMS' forward to a more constructive level and see what they 
> can profit from each other (sorry for repeating you here, Eric).
> Jason is IMO right to say that they are very different in one way. AJAX 
> concentrates on the 'friendlier interface' and improved interactivity 
> alone and does not provide a complete architecture for handling user 
> dialogs as XForms does. Even if some more advanced AJAX samples directly 
> connect datasources on the backend and do some automatic updating they 
> do so in a completely custom (and non-standard) way. In that respect 
> AJAX is more a technique than a technology.
> XForms on the other hand provides a clear model with separation of 
> model, instance and UI in a MVC fashion, provides a clear processing 
> model that guarantees consistency, an advanced dependency tracking and 
> calculation model, nearly endless validation capability, strong 
> data-typing, an event-model and an abstract UI definition. - well, sorry 
> if i left out details but isn't that a bit more than simple AJAX has to 
> offer?
> Even if there are similarities in goals from an end users perspective 
> AJAX and XForms are very different from an architectural or developers 
> view. It's my personal belief that AJAX and XForms go very well together 
> in these 'hybrid' implementations as Eric called them and can profit 
> from each other in large dimensions. AJAX and XForms integrated would 
> free the page developer from lots of custom script coding *and* get all 
> the advantages of XForms processing while server-side XForms processors 
> will be able to become much more accessible, friendly and interactive. - 
> And all this by using a standard webbrowser without any installations. A 
> bright perspective for server-side or hybrid XForms.
> > 
> > As Mark said, it is up to us in the XForms community to evangelize and
> > tell people that XForms is a reality today, that it does much of what
> > Ajax does, and that it is likely to be much more productive than bare
> > metal Ajax. We should also not neglect the "cool" factor: we should
> > work on telling people that XForms is really cool for their web apps,
> > not just a boring tool for enterprise data entry.
> Plain agree. More and more elaborated samples are needed and they also 
> shouldn't leave the 'coolness factor' aside to compete in users eye with 
> some of todays' AJAX samples but also emphasize the specific strength of 
> XForms.
> At Chibacon we also currently work on our own AJAX interface to our 
> XForms processor. A demo will be made publish during November and 
> hopefully show some non-trivial examples and we'll put some extra effort 
> in explanations of features. We hope we can show a complete real-world, 
> AJAX-enabled and non-trivial XForms 'application' for configuring 
> network appliances.
> just my 0.02 €
> Joern
> > 
> > My personal opinion is that yes, the WG is going way too slowly, which
> > is unfortunately typical of much at W3C. But the 1.0 spec has been out
> > for two years now, and what developers really need is not a spec, but
> > good implementations which are as interoperable as possible, and good
> > examples. Several implementations are already out there or coming
> > soon. XForms support in Mozilla is coming up. More implementations
> > will create demand for an improved and richer XForms
> > specification. But implementations and good examples are essential.
> > 
> > Based on a recent survey, many people code Ajax by hand and do not yet
> > use libraries much, see:
> > 
> > http://www.surveymonkey.com/DisplaySummary.asp?SID=1427046&U=142704624114
> > 
> > The bottom line is that consolidation in the Ajax world has not
> > happened at all, so XForms has an excellent opportunity. In short I
> > think that the future of XForms is going to be bright if the current
> > XForms community plays well.
> > 
> > -Erik
> > 
> > PS: I refer you to this email for information about OPS:
> > 
> > http://lists.xml.org/archives/xml-dev/200508/msg00231.html
> > 
> > 

Jason Eacott
Hardlight Interactive

Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have.
Received on Tuesday, 25 October 2005 23:44:34 UTC

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