W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-forms@w3.org > March 2005

RE: XForms vs. Web Forms

From: Goodrich, Christopher Michael <cmgoodr@sandia.gov>
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 09:46:50 -0700
Message-ID: <C01B7DAB36AB864E9C99F5B79655413A03217197@ES20SNLNT.srn.sandia.gov>
To: "Eric S. Fisher" <efisher@fsystems.com>, www-forms@w3.org

I wish to comment about this.  I do want to preface this by saying that
I support your stand on xforms Eric, but I want to point something out
that you may have missed:

<begin snip>

...If this were true, Macromedia Flash, Real Player and Apple QuickTime
would also be limited this way -- and I have never heard users of any of
these technologies complain because they had to download a plug-in....

<end snip>

I would assume then that you have little customer help desk experience.
I've been doing a help desk for about 8 years, and I can tell you that
the grumbles are there.  Not only from the customer, but from the
support people as well.  Macromedia Flash is difficult to work with,
QuickTime breaks IE very easily, and Real Player is simply too
proprietary to work with easily. I for one do not like any of these
'plug-ins' and definitely want to see xforms fully integrated into the
browser.  I don't see a reason why they shouldn't, especially since xml
is already being integrated into the major browsers.

Although I haven't read the article, I can already assume that it is
highly biased and probably doesn't compare xforms favorably if they
include these other 'plug-ins' as examples.  To me, this would reflect
negatively on xforms.  I will read the article now before I speak too
far out of turn.

Thank you,

Christopher M Goodrich A+
Corporate Computing Help Desk
Sandia National Laboratories
Science Applications International Corporation
(505) 284-4797 

-----Original Message-----
From: www-forms-request@w3.org [mailto:www-forms-request@w3.org] On
Behalf Of Eric S. Fisher
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 7:50 AM
To: www-forms@w3.org
Subject: Fwd: XForms vs. Web Forms

I just read this article (all five Web pages) and cannot conclude from
it that Web Forms 2.0 is the "winner."  I thought the article was a
balanced comparison with fair reporting of the real issues confronting
XForms acceptance.

As I said in my earlier post, they are two different specs:  Web Forms
is backward-looking and more or less automatically compatible with the
current generation of browsers.  XForms is forward-looking and is more
concerned with being an open and compatible player in the XML based Web
services arena than in being compatible with earlier technologies.  In
order to have XForms capability in current browsers, you have to
download a plug-in, just like Macromedia Flash, Real Player and Apple
QuickTime, to name just three.

I see no reason at all to consider XForms a dead end just because it is
not supported natively in current browsers.  If this were true,
Macromedia Flash, Real Player and Apple QuickTime would also be limited
this way -- and I have never heard users of any of these technologies
complain because they had to download a plug-in.

Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.  There are a lot of
people, most especially Microsoft, that would like to see the XForms
effort fail.  Truly open standards are fundamently incompatible with
lock-in strategies of any sort.  XForms opens the door to a number of
truly astounding applications not invented yet, and its openness
provides the user and developer communities with options for innovation
and competition that would be unavailable otherwise.  We can go down
both development paths without losing any momentum on either.  That's
the glory of the Internet.

Eric S. Fisher

------- Forwarded message -------
From: "Peter Bruhn Andersen" <bruhn.andersen@get2net.dk>
To: www-forms@w3.org
Subject: XForms vs. Web Forms
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 10:03:36 +0100

I've just seen this article

It 'compares' XForms to the Web Forms 2.0 specification and concludes
that Web Forms is the winner.

I have no knowledge about the Web Forms specification so I would like to
hear what the group thinks about the article. And perhaps more to the
point: Should we keep using XForms or should we switch to Web Forms?



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Received on Wednesday, 16 March 2005 16:47:40 UTC

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