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RE: How to change the order of repeat-items?

From: T. V. Raman <tvraman@us.ibm.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 14:22:00 -0700
Message-ID: <16996.9464.499792.174216@bubbles.almaden.ibm.com>
To: Leigh.Klotz@xerox.com
Cc: mark.birbeck@x-port.net, tvraman@almaden.ibm.com, suzan.foster@nerocmediaware.nl, www-forms@w3.org

A good comprehensive list.
Finally, and perhaps the most complex, a sort  whose sort
predicate is a function of user input into another control.
Having this would create some very fluid end-user experiences.

>>>>> "Klotz," == Klotz, Leigh <Leigh.Klotz@xerox.com> writes:
    Klotz,> Mark's point about the controls presenting views on
    Klotz,> data is clear enough and I don't think anyone was
    Klotz,> disagreeing with that premise.  I might agree with
    Klotz,> Raman's comment that simple attributes might not be
    Klotz,> enough, but I am not sure yet.  I do note, though,
    Klotz,> that presenting sorting without author control brings
    Klotz,> up the question of what's being sorted; i.e., what is
    Klotz,> the sort key accessor function, and what is the
    Klotz,> comparator?  There are many options, and I think that
    Klotz,> the ability to express the (needed) options from the
    Klotz,> list below will give a test of whether the simple
    Klotz,> attribute (or simple child element) case is good
    Klotz,> enough.
    Klotz,> 1. Sort key is label.  - If I show a list of airport
    Klotz,> codes with city names as the labels, presumably I
    Klotz,> want to sort by city name, not by airport code.
    Klotz,> Otherwise we'll get complaints from all the Canadians
    Klotz,> about YOW and YYV appearning at the bottom of the
    Klotz,> list ;-) 2. Sort key is value - What if value is
    Klotz,> complex, in the case of select?  3. Sort key is some
    Klotz,> computed expression.  - Useful in the above case of
    Klotz,> select1 and complex value.  4. Sort key is one of the
    Klotz,> above, but comparison function is elsehow specified.
    Klotz,> One possibility is to use the XML Schema type -
    Klotz,> Lexicographic ascending/descending (xsd:string) -
    Klotz,> Numeric or date-based ascending or descending --
    Klotz,> (xsd:number, xsd:dateTime) - Other more complicated
    Klotz,> user-defined Schema types But then what if there's no
    Klotz,> Schema or the processor doesn't support it (XForms
    Klotz,> Basic)?
    Klotz,> Leigh.
    Klotz,> -----Original Message----- From: Mark Birbeck
    Klotz,> [mailto:mark.birbeck@x-port.net] Sent: Monday, April
    Klotz,> 18, 2005 11:26 AM To: tvraman@almaden.ibm.com Cc:
    Klotz,> Klotz, Leigh; suzan.foster@nerocmediaware.nl;
    Klotz,> www-forms@w3.org Subject: RE: How to change the order
    Klotz,> of repeat-items?
    Klotz,> Raman,
    >> The idea of putting sort attrs on the ui layer is
    >> enticing, but I am afraid it will run into a wall fairly
    >> quickly.
    Klotz,> I disagree ;)
    Klotz,> As you know -- since you are a strong advocate for it
    Klotz,> -- there are many situations where the UI does not
    Klotz,> *directly* reflect the model. For example, take
    Klotz,> xf:select1; its purpose is for the user to choose an
    Klotz,> item from a list, but it is possible for the list to
    Klotz,> not be 'in view', even though the list is obviously
    Klotz,> in the model. The list might be limited because the
    Klotz,> author has used:
    Klotz,>   @appearance="minimal"
    Klotz,> or it might be limited because the user has collapsed
    Klotz,> a node in a tree, or whatever.
    Klotz,> Other examples would be the use of date pickers to
    Klotz,> both select and render dates, check-boxes that look
    Klotz,> nothing like the word 'true' or 'false', colour
    Klotz,> pickers that obviously don't look like #ab7f34, a
    Klotz,> number like "100" stored in the model but rendered as
    Klotz,> "$100.00", and so on.
    Klotz,> So, my view is that *some* (not all) of the use cases
    Klotz,> for sorting fall into this domain -- the user might
    Klotz,> be able to control them and the author might be able
    Klotz,> to hint at them, but either way, the model doesn't
    Klotz,> care. (To put it in terms of the MVC architecture, we
    Klotz,> are simply allowing the creation of an ordered 'view'
    Klotz,> of a set of nodes, without touching the underlying
    Klotz,> nodes.)
    Klotz,> I would say that the sortable columns of email or
    Klotz,> contacts falls into the category of a 'user sort' --
    Klotz,> this can be done with no mark-up at all, since it's
    Klotz,> just a more complex version of the button next to a
    Klotz,> drop-box that shows you the list of options, and is
    Klotz,> not under the control of XForms, but under the
    Klotz,> control of the user agent.
    Klotz,> In the category of an 'author-hint sort' would be the
    Klotz,> rendering of the selections in a selection list; the
    Klotz,> names of the countries would be in one order in one
    Klotz,> language, and in another order in another language,
    Klotz,> for example.
    Klotz,> And in the category of a 'model sort' might be the
    Klotz,> list of items in a flowchart, since in this case the
    Klotz,> order in the model really does matter.
    Klotz,> The 'model sort' is more accurately a proper
    Klotz,> re-ordering of nodes, that should be permanent, and
    Klotz,> would therefore be achieved through an action or
    Klotz,> extension function. The second one is more like a
    Klotz,> 'filter' -- a different 'view' on the same underlying
    Klotz,> nodes, but with those nodes left completely intact.
    Klotz,> Regards,
    Klotz,> Mark
    Klotz,> Mark Birbeck CEO x-port.net Ltd.
    Klotz,> e: Mark.Birbeck@x-port.net t: +44 (0) 20 7689 9232 w:
    Klotz,> http://www.formsPlayer.com/ b:
    Klotz,> http://internet-apps.blogspot.com/
    Klotz,> Download our XForms processor from
    Klotz,> http://www.formsPlayer.com/

Best Regards,
T. V. Raman:  PhD (Cornell University)
IBM Research: Human Language Technologies
Architect:    RDC --- Conversational And Multimodal WWW Standards
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Received on Monday, 18 April 2005 21:21:54 UTC

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