W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-forms@w3.org > March 2002

RE: xforms:model events

From: Micah Dubinko <MDubinko@cardiff.com>
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:04:57 -0800
Message-ID: <E840F0B7E6189547BDB91DA8BF2228AB28C300@csmail.cardiff.com>
To: 'Plechąmíd Martin' <Martin.Plechsmid@merlin.cz>, "'www-forms@w3.org'" <www-forms@w3.org>
Hi Martin,

I probably don't say this sort of thing enough, but THANK YOU for your
continuous excellent feedback on www-forms. Only with the help and support
of people like you will XForms be a success.

From the authoring standpoint (and I consider myself an author here), there
isn't much difference between the different initialization events--mostly
just what has already been initialized and what still needs to be. There
might be cases, especially if an implementation provides scripting
interfaces to various internal components, where this ordering matters. For
the most part, though, intializeDone is what authors will use, IMHO.

Maybe the current design smells a little like design-by-committee. My
personal opinion is that chopping out some of the initialization events at
this point would bring a risk of introducing ambiguity (for implementers)
into the spec.


-----Original Message-----
From: Plechąmíd Martin [mailto:Martin.Plechsmid@merlin.cz]
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 1:35 AM
To: 'Micah Dubinko'; 'www-forms@w3.org'
Subject: RE: xforms:model events


I know that a specification is not a user manual. I only didn't notice that
the initialisation events are not cancelable, so that there's no need for
form authors to have means for "loading xml schema", "constructing the XPath
data model" etc.

I rather should have asked, what is the difference, from the form authors'
point of view, between different phases of initialisation. What use are the
modelConstruct, modelInitialize, UIInitialize and formConrolInitialize
events to them? Dividing the initialisation into several phases is, in my
opinion, an internal thing of the XForms engine, these phases are
undistinguishable for the form authors. And as they are undistinguishable,
they shouldn't be part of the specification, and should be replaced by a
mere list of actions that are to be done during the initialisation instead. 

Thank you,

P.S. By the way, the target for xforms:formConrolInitialize should be
probably form controls, not the model (sec. 4.2.5).

-----Původní zpráva-----
Od: Micah Dubinko [mailto:MDubinko@cardiff.com]
Odesláno: 14. března 2002 19:36
Komu: 'Plechąmíd Martin'; 'www-forms@w3.org'
Předmět: RE: xforms:model events


A well-written article at
summarizes my response.

The primary 'audience' of the XForms spec is implementers. That doesn't mean
that form authors won't find the actual spec useful, just that they might
have to work a little harder. :-)

Thus, the initialization events provide a known interface between an XForms
processor and a host language processor. Form authors might write XML Events
code to listen in on (but not "override") these events to accomplish needed
initialization tasks. I would probably use initializeDone myself...



-----Original Message-----
From: Plechąmíd Martin [mailto:Martin.Plechsmid@merlin.cz]
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 3:29 AM
To: 'www-forms@w3.org'
Subject: xforms:model events


1) I'd like to know who for the initialisation events (sec.4.2) on the
xforms:model are meant. Are they intended for authors of the XForms forms,
or for the authors of the XForms engines?

If they are intended merely for the authors of XForms engines, why are they
mentioned in the XForms standard at all? I think that in this case, it is an
internal thing of the engine implementation how the form will be initialised
if it will be working properly then. If the form authors don't have an
opportunity to provide their own handlers, the events are not interesting
for them.

If the default initialisation events are supposed to be overriden by form
authors, how can they replace the default implementations with their own.
The form authors have no means for performing actions like "loading xml
schema", "constructing the XPath data model" (both 4.2.1), "validating the
instance data against the schema" (4.2.2), etc.

2) I need an analogy of the HTML body::onload event in my XForms forms. What
XForms event corresponds to this? The xforms:initializeDone? I need my forms
authors to have a possibility to handle the event themeselves and provide
their own actions to be called when the document gets loaded.

	Thank you,
Received on Friday, 15 March 2002 15:08:52 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Tuesday, 6 January 2015 21:36:05 UTC