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RE: Other controls ? Grid ?

From: Luz, Antonio <ALuz@StudentInsurance.net>
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 09:53:40 -0600
Message-ID: <91C1CFA309ECD111B6A4006008C82C1304064392@SIDCRE00>
To: "'Dan Dennedy'" <DDennedy@digitalbang.com>, Kit Davies <KDavies@categoric.com>, DESEYNE Jacques <jacques.deseyne@swift.com>, www-forms@w3.org
Let us know the outcome of your experimentation - i.e. like to know how it
works w/XTab tools.

-Tony
Antonio Luz
SID - UICI
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> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Dan Dennedy [SMTP:DDennedy@digitalbang.com]
> Sent:	Friday, February 01, 2002 9:52 AM
> To:	Kit Davies; DESEYNE Jacques; www-forms@w3.org
> Subject:	RE: Other controls ? Grid ?
> 
> Yes, I was thinking that a constrained device may need to present a table
> one column at a time and a way to let the user choose a column. Or,
> perhaps it portrays one row at a time with each cell in a list or spoken.
>  
> The XForms repeat structures and related actions go a long way towards
> fulfilling the basics of accomplishing the same goals as a grid control.
> I'll have to do some experimentation to see if I can make my XForms
> processor do the same things as my XTab tool. In particular, for HTML
> browsers, I need to figure out how to align multiple items per repeated
> instance to give a nice tabular appearance. 
> 
> 	-----Original Message-----
> 	From: Kit Davies [mailto:KDavies@categoric.com]
> 	Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 10:14 AM
> 	To: Dan Dennedy; DESEYNE Jacques; www-forms@w3.org
> 	Subject: RE: Other controls ? Grid ?
> 	
> 	
> 
> 	Hi Dan, 
> 
> 	I believe XForms was designed to abstract the interface intention
> from it's visual or audible implementation. The problem is that visual
> forms are very 2-dimensional so tables fit easily, but voice 'forms' are
> very 1-dimensional sequential objects. So the question is how do you
> represent the intention of a 2-dimensional table in an abstract way. One
> way would be a list of lists (which after all is how tabular is normally
> represented in XML and XForms is XML). So if tables can be implemented by
> lists (and vice versa) and XForms has lists, I suggest that's problem
> solved.
> 
> 	Kit 
> 
> 	-----Original Message----- 
> 	From: Dan Dennedy [ <mailto:DDennedy@digitalbang.com>] 
> 	Sent: 01 February 2002 14:48 
> 	To: Kit Davies; DESEYNE Jacques; www-forms@w3.org 
> 	Subject: RE: Other controls ? Grid ? 
> 
> 
> 	A grid is essentially a table. A table can be as little as a single
> column, also known as a list. Are you implying that lists are unusable in
> diverse environments? I believe what you are describing is a design or
> implementation issue, and not an issue with the paradigm of information
> presented in a tabular manner. 
> 
> 	-----Original Message----- 
> 	From: Kit Davies [ <mailto:KDavies@categoric.com>] 
> 	Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 9:19 AM 
> 	To: 'DESEYNE Jacques'; www-forms@w3.org 
> 	Subject: RE: Other controls ? Grid ? 
> 
> 
> 	Jacques, 
> 	I work for a company writing software which communicates with users
> over a wide range of devices/channels. Grids are great for fairly large
> visual interfaces, but I find their use becomes more difficult the smaller
> the visual area gets. Plus they are completely unusable when working with
> non-visual interfaces (voice browsers, etc) which were also part of the
> XForms remit.
> 
> 	Modularised XHTML is a better bet. This allows the minimum
> capabilities required by a browser to be stated in a form. Then a
> user/browser can pick the one best suited for the device, using grids if
> possible, or some other design if not.
> 
> 	Kit 
> 	-----Original Message----- 
> 	From: DESEYNE Jacques [ <mailto:jacques.deseyne@swift.com>] 
> 	Sent: 01 February 2002 08:46 
> 	To: www-forms@w3.org 
> 	Subject: Other controls ? Grid ? 
> 
> 
> 	All, 
> 	From my lecture of the current Last Call draft (I've discovered
> XForms only very recently), it would seem that an XForms specification is
> not really intended to provide a framework for generic User Interfaces. It
> lacks several controls commonly found in widely-used GUI "foundation
> classes". 
> 
> 	Among other things, one 'control' we frequently need is a kind of
> grid or table, to present a set of tuples. In principle, it would be
> possible to mimic a grid by repeat structures, but the appearance and
> behaviour will be slightly different, in the best case. Of course, one
> could always envision to make her/his own non-standard extensions... 
> 
> 	Maybe I am missing something and I should apologise for not having
> read some requirements document, but what was the motivation to limit the
> defined controls to more or less what is already available in HTML forms ?
> 
> 
> 	Best regards, 
> 	-- 
> 	Jacques Deseyne 
> 	Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication
> (S.W.I.F.T.) 
> 	SWIFTAlliance WebStation Development Team - IT/Interfaces 
> 	<http://www.swift.com> 
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> 	  
> 
Received on Friday, 1 February 2002 11:01:20 GMT

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