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Minutes, 17 Aug WebFonts f2f

From: Chris Lilley <chris@w3.org>
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 03:15:37 +0200
Message-ID: <1884004734.20100818031537@w3.org>
To: www-font@w3.org
Hello www-font,


                    WebFonts WG f2f, Los Angeles

17 Aug 2010


          Vlad, Chris, JDaggett, Sylvain, Christopher, John, Lurence,
          Dave, Adam, Sergei, Julio, Tab, Tal, Erik




     * [2]Topics
     * [3]Summary of Action Items

   cslye: what if you have something a font manager can use, but not a

   jdaggett: we're concerned about conformant UAs

   cslye: we have this block specified, and as soon as anyone uses it,
   it out of spec

   jdaggett: right, its not for UAs to use, its for font vendor to


   Julio: it should be changed, ye
   ... the language should be changed in S7P1

   eriK: can the update notidication be done by file date and name in
   the metadata?

   John: its the update url?

   crossland: yes

   <TabAtkins_> ACTION: jdaggett to Tighten the description of the
   private data block. [recorded in

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-25 - Tighten the description of the
   private data block. [on John Daggett - due 2010-08-25].

   ChrisL: <license url=""> is not THE LICENSE

   cslye: the advantageof WOFF could attach the actualy license ot the

   ChrisL: <license> is thelicense of the WOFF, not the font

   John: its a license for web use
   ... the font might have a license that says you can link on the web
   in secondarily licensed domains.
   ... the WOFF says what those domains are
   ... you dont want to write the font metadata each time you make a
   woff, you want on TTF and when you woff it apply metadata simpley

   Vlad: when you have 2 documents that claim to be a license, the
   least restrictive one is what is enforcable, so you dont want
   anything that can be interpreted as a second license

   cslye: you dont want ot say this is for the license of font

   John: so do we want ot be clear its a license for the woff file?

   cslye: no, some foundries may want to use it in a specific way for
   the contianed font, and others will want something else

   adam: i see WOFF as a ZIP archive; we are making a packaging

   John: i prefer "license summary" as "license" implies a legal

   erik: what if your license is 2 lines?

   adam: "licensing information"
   ... that could be full license, summary, url...

   cslye: if adobe decides its risky to use it, we wont use it

   John: in the spec we should not call it a license, "licensing
   information" is generic and covers an actual license and anything

   cslye: good topic for the panel

   Vlad: 1 hour left

   <Adam> Section 6, license block: change "The license for the font."
   to "The licensing information for the font."

   action chrisl to Section 6, license block: change "The license for
   the font." to "The licensing information for the font."

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-26 - Section 6, license block: change "The
   license for the font." to "The licensing information for the font."
   [on Chris Lilley - due 2010-08-25].

   <ChrisL> ACTION: chris to write up a test suite plan [recorded in

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-27 - Write up a test suite plan [on Chris
   Lilley - due 2010-08-25].

   Vlad: TPAC, CSS is obvious group, also SVG and XSL

   jdaggett: what topics are?
   ... that determines how long we need

   Vlad: topics is after checking for need to discuss

   ChrisL: yes, need to ask if they willuse woff and to what extent

   jdaggett: by november we hsould have a test suite so everyone in the
   room can look at the tests
   ... everyone of us
   ... it would be better to ask svg who will need to use woff to
   participate in our meeting at tpuc

   ChrisL: people in this gruop could do ueful review of css3-fonts,
   similarly the other way

   Adam: new q: could i change which font is used via js?

   cslye: yes, like typekit's js loader doe

   Adam: in FontLab 6 i'd like to have a feature for live preview in
   ... without reloading the whole page

   <ChrisL> XSL FO is meeting thu/fri

   <ChrisL> [6]http://www.w3.org/2010/11/TPAC/

      [6] http://www.w3.org/2010/11/TPAC/

   Vlad: last item is implementation review

   ChrisL: i asked adam if FL will support WOFF soon

   Adam: certainly

   Vlad: reference implementation?

   ChrisL: status of woff at opera isnt yet clear


      [7] http://www.flickr.com/photos/letterror/4890870343/in/set-72157624711809860/

   jdaggett: when the test suite is ready, we'll need a table of who
   passes what tests

   ChrisL: and maintain it
   ... and once there are 2 green bars, we can move forward

   Lorp: do any clauses prohibit usage on non-web platforms - like
   ebooks - where they pacakge text+woff

   jdaggett: why do this?
   ... ah, download with a book

   erik: woff compressino may be nicer than a raw font?

   Lorp: licening might be related for web and ebooks

   Vlad: epub can include fonts

   Adam: adobe has a dont obfuscation technique like PDF-XML

   cslye: i didnt know about that until this year, its old

   si daniel: iTunes Album Format might bundle fonts

   si daniels: if it uses @font-face doesn't mean font licensing for
   the web will cover such usage

   <Vlad> Acknoledgements

   ChrisL: ebook vendors have approached w3c

   <Vlad> The WebFonts WG would like to thank Typecon organizers and
   SoTA for accommodating the attendees of the WG F2F meeting and
   providing meeting facilities, and would like to thank Adobe Systems
   and Christopher Slye for providing video projector for our use
   during the meeting.

   jdaggett: comment on css3-font; we dont support TTC, and their
   typical uses are tricky and dont apply to web fonts context
   ... any ideas?

   Adam: with css font stacking you can do the same thing
   ... you can slice your fonts into groups that way
   ... typical ttc allows many kanji and half width or full width or
   mono latin
   ... you can just do this with a css font stack

   cslye: yes, but will composite fonts become more widely used and
   think they cant use it as is on the web, and will THEY think to use
   a cs font stack? or will they want omtehing more convenient?

   John: WOFF is a container, having made some TTC i know they are a
   cmoplicated way to get a small space saving...

   Adam: css is a composite format mechanism; unicode ranges, a way of
   pulling it all together

   John: you coul dhave a composite font format with WOFF payloads

   Vlad: WOFF2 could accomodate composite fonts

   John: composite fonts is just XML wrapping around fonts

   Adam: you can have it as one piece of woff data, like the metadata
   block, and then chunk ALL the tables together
   ... the CWOFF

   Vlad: if you have text in arabic and latin, you want to keep uing
   the numerals defined in the arabic font

   John: european punctuation is used all over the world
   ... chars in the devanagri block are meant to be used in other indic


   Adam: common locale directory; exemplar section of unicode.org

   <John> Big thanks to Dave and Tab for scribing.

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: chris to write up a test suite plan [recorded in
   [NEW] ACTION: jdaggett to Tighten the description of the private
   data block. [recorded in

   [End of minutes]

 Chris Lilley   Technical Director, Interaction Domain                 
 W3C Graphics Activity Lead, Fonts Activity Lead
 Co-Chair, W3C Hypertext CG
 Member, CSS, WebFonts, SVG Working Groups
Received on Wednesday, 18 August 2010 01:15:42 UTC

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