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Re: DOM 4 request

From: Dirk Schulze <dschulze@adobe.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 07:14:19 -0700
To: Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com>
CC: Anne van Kesteren <annevk@annevk.nl>, "annevankesteren@gmail.com" <annevankesteren@gmail.com>, "public-canvas-api@w3.org" <public-canvas-api@w3.org>, "www-dom@w3.org" <www-dom@w3.org>, "www-svg@w3.org" <www-svg@w3.org>
Message-ID: <38463FA1-E27D-4000-995D-6B6755F0C82C@adobe.com>
Hi,

On Mar 11, 2013, at 6:18 AM, Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com> wrote:

> 
> Rich Schwerdtfeger
> 
> annevankesteren@gmail.com wrote on 03/11/2013 06:21:28 AM:
> 
> > From: Anne van Kesteren <annevk@annevk.nl>
> > To: Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS, 
> > Cc: www-svg@w3.org, public-canvas-api@w3.org, www-dom@w3.org
> > Date: 03/11/2013 06:22 AM
> > Subject: Re: DOM 4 request
> > Sent by: annevankesteren@gmail.com
> > 
> > Resending with corrected addresses.
> > 
> > On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 11:18 AM, Anne van Kesteren <annevk@annevk.nl> wrote:
> > >> Please let us know if the DOM working group would support adding this
> > >> attribute [(activeElement)].
> > >
> > > It's already supported for SVG at the moment. HTML simply extends the
> > > Document interface and does not create one specific for HTML. In terms
> 
> Hi Anne,
> 
> The issue is that SVG can run in standalone documents. For this reason we have the following situation: 
>  
> Here is the current Document object reference in SVG2: 
> Document element Interface: https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/struct.html#InterfaceSVGDocument
> 
> Here is the DOM4: 
> Document element Interface: http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-dom-20120405/#interface-document
> 
> Here is the HTML5 
> HTML5 Document element Interface: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/CR/dom.html#the-document-object
> 
> 
> > > of dependencies, HTML and DOM have a mutual dependency already (as
> > > unfortunate as that may be). And actually, SVG must have a dependency
> > > on HTML too for script scheduling and execution.
> > 
> We agree that SVG has a huge dependency on HTML for scripting and introducing tabindex to SVG2 has really brought a lot of these issues to light in the SVG working group. Yet, the HTML5 Document object interface has a lot of features that really don't apply in a standalone situation. Here are a few
> 
>  readonly attribute HTMLCollection embeds;
>  readonly attribute HTMLCollection plugins;
>  readonly attribute HTMLCollection forms;
> 
>            attribute EventHandler onblur;   (SVG has a different handler name for this - onfocusout)
> 
> So, are you suggesting that we simply take the HTML5 Document Object interface and basically address the mapping issues like return null for objects that have no applicability to SVG in a standalone environment? 

WebKit does not differ between Document from DOM and partial Document from HTML. SVGDocument just inherits of "HTMLDocument". Independent if it is standalone. I do not know how we handle the cases above at the moment.

Looking at the Firefox source code, it does not look like this is done at Mozilla. FF seems to have an "XMLDocument" which does not have HTML specific methods and attributes.

> 
> If so, then we should also coordinate with the HTML WG and WhatWG on ensuring clear specification of how this may be populated in the presence of an SVG document in HTML. I am sure the browses have addressed a lot of this but it has not been clearly spec'd to my knowledge.

It would need a lot of clarifications how this is supposed to work on SVG. And it doesn't even seem to be implemented this way broadly. A cleaner solution seems to be to move the necessary methods and attributes to DOM and let all XML languages use it. MathML would be another candidate where it could make sense.

Greetings,
Dirk

> 
> 
> Rich
> > 
> > -- 
> > http://annevankesteren.nl/
> > 
> 
Received on Monday, 11 March 2013 14:15:38 GMT

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