W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-dom@w3.org > October to December 2009

Minutes: DOM3 Events Telcon, Wednesday, 28 October 2009

From: Doug Schepers <schepers@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 17:45:52 -0400
Message-ID: <4AEA0D10.6020401@w3.org>
To: "www-dom@w3.org" <www-dom@w3.org>
Hi, DOM3 Events Folks-

Here are the minutes for the 28 October 2009 DOM3 Events Telcon:

   http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-webapps-minutes.html

Or as text below:

    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

              Web Applications Working Group Teleconference

28 Oct 2009

    [2]Agenda

       [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-dom/2009OctDec/0078.html

    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-webapps-irc

Attendees

    Present
           [Microsoft], Shepazu, yngve, smaug, +358.407.37aaaa, khiitola

    Regrets
    Chair
           SV_MEETING_CHAIR

    Scribe
           Travis

Contents

      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]DOM3 Events in VoiceXML
          2. [6]I18n telcon
          3. [7]-ms-styleContentLoaded
          4. [8]detail attributes of resize event.
          5. [9]default actions triggered by programmatic dispatch
          6. [10]Ninja Dispatch
          7. [11]5.1.1: "this event must not be triggered".
      * [12]Summary of Action Items
      _________________________________________________________



    <trackbot> Date: 28 October 2009

    <smaug> yngve?

    <smaug> Zakim ??P1 is me

    <scribe> scribe: Travis

    <scribe> scribeNick: Travis

    <smaug> khiitola: ping

    shepazu: Who's going to TPAC?

    I am.

    smaug: No.

    <khiitola> smaug: pong.

    <smaug> khiitola: the telco is now, if you want to join

    shepazu: mmm.

    <khiitola> Thanks. Trying to decipher what's happening here. (sorry,
    I'm a newbie)

    khiitola: Here to talk about touch/gesture at your convenience

    shepazu: I've thought about putting touch/gesture into DOM L4
    events.
    ... but have been advised to put it into its own spec.
    ... many companies have IP in this area and could be a minefeild.
    ... We're still not done with Dom L3 Events, so want to keep focus
    there.
    ... Folks are free to discuss on the list, but may not get much
    traction.
    ... khiitola does this fit your timeframe?

    khiitola: Would love something sooner, but willing to live with the
    group's decision.

    shepazu: Naturally, I'm don't have to be the editor...

    khiitola: I vote for smaug

    smaug: Hmm. very funny.

    shepazu: Also very busy...
    ... Let's hit the agenda, and then come back to Touch stuff.

DOM3 Events in VoiceXML

    shepazu: Spoke with International folks and VoicXML team recently.
    ... "Visual browser" preferred in that Working group ;-)
    ... They are using DOM L3 Events in an unorthedox way.
    ... May be able converge XML+V into D3E.
    ... Here's how they use D3E:
    ... No script (all declarative). For a document, the capture phase
    is used to determine a catch handler.
    ... Any catch handler (on a proximal event target) gets accumulated.
    ... Very similar to how a UA registered event handlers in the markup
    during parsing.
    ... Subtle differences: Only one handler will get invoked (not all
    possible handlers).
    ... Their algorithm selects the most appropriate event given current
    context.
    ... They asked whether it's reasonable to use D3E for their
    technique.
    ... Jury's still out.

    smaug: MS has SALT... similar to XML+V -- and more similar to what
    visual browsers do.

    shepazu: What if there was a SALT-like profile?

    smaug: Opera has some support for XML+V (or used to?)
    ... Not sure how the visual browser and the XML+V interacted.
    ... To me, a visual browser implementor wouldn't consider
    integrating XHTML+Voice directly.

    shepazu: Members appear to be neutral to the position, but don't
    want to see changes to D3E to accomodate XHTML+Voice.
    ... Will take this feedback to them.

    Travis: (Confused about terminology)

    <shepazu> [13]http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml+voice/

      [13] http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml+voice/

    shepazu: Travis, willing to meet with these people informally at
    TPAC?

    Travis: Yes.

    <shepazu>
    [14]http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/specification/x-v11spe
    c/index.html

      [14] 
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/specification/x-v11spec/index.html

I18n telcon

    shepazu: Internationalization (I18n)
    ... I18n have had issues with KeyBoard events in the past.
    ... Pleased to report that post-summary of the current KeyboardEvent
    plan was good.
    ... Mentioned that we return the key after all modifier processing
    has happened.
    ... This is what they wanted.
    ... Concerned about encodings in supplementary planes (upper
    character ranges) and how they are processed by JavaScript.

    Travis: Is there a JavaScript language limitation, or is this a DOM
    L3 Events issue to solve?

    shepazu: Not sure. Apple asked if there were keyboard that could
    produce characters in the supplementary ranges? Answer was yet.
    ... s/yet/yes/
    ... We might try normalizing the output.
    ... In JavaScript there are two escape sequences in a row. Alternate
    forms exist.
    ... Again, there are a few concerns, but these aren't blocking.
    ... My plan is to use JavaScript escape sequences, and provide an
    API to extract the Unicode code point from an escape sequence (or
    something like that).
    ... e.g., so that someone using Java could get the the same
    character, but may have to go through another step...
    ... I18n will review the spec in full, but they seem happy with it.
    Yeah!!!

    Travis: How deep to recursive event handlers go (thinking of
    DOMNodeInserted handler that inserts a node).

    smaug: Certain changes to the DOM within a mutation event listener
    are not allowed.
    ... not sure what other implementations do.

    <scribe> ACTION: shepazu to add section on re-entrant event handlers
    (may be contingent on async/sync) [recorded in
    [15]http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-webapps-minutes.html#action01]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-426 - Add section on re-entrant event
    handlers (may be contingent on async/sync) [on Doug Schepers - due
    2009-11-04].

    Travis: This is also releated to sync/async.

-ms-styleContentLoaded

    Travis: Wanting to introduce this experimental event to fill a void
    for detecting when the style sheets have all loaded.

    shepazu: May want to contact annavk re: CSSOM for that.

detail attributes of resize event.

    shepazu: If the property is not "in use" then it has random or
    default values.
    ... This reminds me of the "button" issue...
    ... PPK dislikes the W3C method (does not allow button combinations)
    ... What do you folks think about "buttons" with more of the IE
    behavior (a bit mask)

    Travis: I'm hesitant to add this-- don't want to introduce the
    complexity and redundancy (and confusion?)

    shepazu: I'd like to put this in the spec as a proposal--to get
    community feedback.

default actions triggered by programmatic dispatch

    UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: e.g., programmatically create click event, dispatch
    it to an <A> element, and does it navigate the page?

    shepazu: This makes me really nervous.

    Travis: This is allowed in most browsers (I believe)

    smaug: Yes, for back compat--we broke this once and got lots of
    complaints.

    <smaug> ^^^^that was for keypress on input elements, IIRC

    smaug: We distinguish between "trusted events" and "non-trusted",
    and give trusted events the ability to cause default actions.

    <smaug> isTrusted

    shepazu: Should we add this concept to the spec?
    ... This would be a new attribute for events
    ("trusted"={true/false}). Programmatic dispatch of events would
    always be trusted=false.

Ninja Dispatch

    Travis: Create an event. Init the event. Call
    stopImmediatePropagation(). Now dispatch.

    <scribe> ACTION: shepazu Add clarity about dispatch under the
    scenario of propagation has been stopped before dispatch. [recorded
    in [16]http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-webapps-minutes.html#action02]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-427 - Add clarity about dispatch under the
    scenario of propagation has been stopped before dispatch. [on Doug
    Schepers - due 2009-11-04].

5.1.1: "this event must not be triggered".

    Travis: This does not accomodate the Window object.
    ... (e.g., defaultView)
    ... Should all events be allowed to be captured on the defaultView?

    shepazu: Yes.

    <scribe> ACTION: shepazu Change text in 5.1.1 to "If an event
    listener for the load event is attached to a node other than Window
    (defaultView), Document or Element nodes, or if it is attached to
    the bubbling phase only, this event listener must not be triggered.
    [recorded in
    [17]http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-webapps-minutes.html#action03]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-428 - Change text in 5.1.1 to "If an event
    listener for the load event is attached to a node other than Window
    (defaultView), Document or Element nodes, or if it is attached to
    the bubbling phase only, this event listener must not be triggered.
    [on Doug Schepers - due 2009-11-04].

    Travis: That's all I have

    shepazu: Want to discuss touch/gesture events?

    khiitola: Would love to get a list of people interested in
    contributing to a specification on touch/gesture?

    shepazu: It's in our charter to handle this.
    ... Call to advisory commitee has already gone out.
    ... Can ask for "interest" in the advisory committee (using official
    channels)
    ... Can ask specific people as desired.
    ... Note: No telecon next week.

    <scribe> ACTION: shepazu to the COMM teams and PLH to make a call
    for participation for multitouch. [recorded in
    [18]http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-webapps-minutes.html#action04]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-429 - The COMM teams and PLH to make a
    call for participation for multitouch. [on Doug Schepers - due
    2009-11-04].

    shepazu: For multitouch, does each touchpoint have an id?

    smaug: A stream id.

    shepazu: What about two different people touching the device?

    (Travis not participating)

    shepazu: You CAN detect it!!
    ... Can refer to this as "alternative input events" (AIE)

    khiitola: Should include the word "ninja"

    <shepazu> trackbot, end telcon

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: shepazu Add clarity about dispatch under the scenario
    of propagation has been stopped before dispatch. [recorded in
    [19]http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-webapps-minutes.html#action02]
    [NEW] ACTION: shepazu Change text in 5.1.1 to "If an event listener
    for the load event is attached to a node other than Window
    (defaultView), Document or Element nodes, or if it is attached to
    the bubbling phase only, this event listener must not be triggered.
    [recorded in
    [20]http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-webapps-minutes.html#action03]
    [NEW] ACTION: shepazu to add section on re-entrant event handlers
    (may be contingent on async/sync) [recorded in
    [21]http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-webapps-minutes.html#action01]
    [NEW] ACTION: shepazu to the COMM teams and PLH to make a call for
    participation for multitouch. [recorded in
    [22]http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-webapps-minutes.html#action04]

    [End of minutes]
Received on Thursday, 29 October 2009 21:45:58 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Friday, 22 June 2012 06:14:04 GMT