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Minutes: DOM3 Events Telcon

From: Doug Schepers <schepers@w3.org>
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 18:57:14 -0400
Message-ID: <4AA832CA.2020101@w3.org>
To: "www-dom@w3.org" <www-dom@w3.org>
Hi, DOM3 Events Folks-

The minutes for the DOM3 Events telcon of 09-09-2009 can be found here:

   http://www.w3.org/2009/09/09-webapps-minutes.html

Or as text below:

    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

              Web Applications Working Group Teleconference

09 Sep 2009

    [2]Agenda

       [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-dom/2009JulSep/0265.html

    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2009/09/09-webapps-irc

Attendees

    Present
           Shepazu, smaug, [Microsoft]

    Regrets
    Chair
           shepazu

    Scribe
           smaug

Contents

      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]New WD of DOM3 Events
          2. [6]'select' event
          3. [7]event order
          4. [8]webidl
          5. [9]vendor extensions
          6. [10]keyboard layout
          7. [11]DOMContentLoaded, DOMWindowClose, and AfterPaint
          8. [12]other things
      * [13]Summary of Action Items
      _________________________________________________________



    <trackbot> Date: 09 September 2009

    [14]http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/REC-DOM-Level-3-Core-20040407/core.htm
    l#DOMObject

      [14] 
http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/REC-DOM-Level-3-Core-20040407/core.html#DOMObject

    <scribe> ACTION: smaug to check gecko's key event handling during
    composition events [recorded in
    [15]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/09-webapps-minutes.html#action01]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-401 - Check gecko's key event handling
    during composition events [on Olli Pettay - due 2009-09-16].

    <Travis> Hi.

New WD of DOM3 Events

    shepazu: we have a new WD
    ... asking internalization people to comment about it

'select' event

    shepazu: did some testing on select event and made some changing to
    the WD

    <shepazu>
    [16]http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/DOM-Level-3-Events/html/DOM3-Event
    s.html#event-type-select

      [16] 
http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/DOM-Level-3-Events/html/DOM3-Events.html#event-type-select

    shepazu: it is only available on certain elements
    ... and I added .detail

    smaug .detail is long!

    shepazu: hard to define when mousedown/up generates a click
    ... with select I'd like to know what has been selected

    Travis: just use HTML5 for that

    shepazu: do we want to overload select event for mouse and keyboard
    selection?
    ... I'll have to look at HTML5 about this
    ... what if there is an image selected?

    Travis: it is included

    shepazu: what happens when pasting that data to somewhere?

    Travis: UA must put the data in all possible formats to clipboard

    <Travis> Selection in HTML5:
    [17]http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#selection

      [17] http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#selection

    shepazu: yeah, relates to clipboard handling
    ... there are whole range of options for copy-paste and data
    handling
    ... so is it worth worth saying author can get the text somehow?

    Travis: I'd just rather use other mechanism

    shepazu: I'll probably add reference to HTML5
    ... does the select event work everywhere, or only with form
    elements?

    Travis: IE fires an event to body or document

    shepazu: maybe I'll say that it is up to UA to decide the target

event order

    shepazu: there is event order defined for mouse, key and composition
    events

    <shepazu>
    [18]http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/DOM-Level-3-Events/html/DOM3-Event
    s.html#events-mouseevent-event-order

      [18] 
http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/DOM-Level-3-Events/html/DOM3-Events.html#events-mouseevent-event-order

    shepazu: ... in the latest draft

    <shepazu>
    [19]http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/DOM-Level-3-Events/html/DOM3-Event
    s.html#events-keyboard-event-order

      [19] 
http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/DOM-Level-3-Events/html/DOM3-Events.html#events-keyboard-event-order

    <shepazu>
    [20]http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/DOM-Level-3-Events/html/DOM3-Event
    s.html#events-composition-event-order

      [20] 
http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/DOM-Level-3-Events/html/DOM3-Events.html#events-composition-event-order

    shepazu: I added a list of events, I'm planning to add diagrams
    ... is this too much detail, or not enough?

    Travis: certainly helpful

    smaug: I agree

    shepazu: will get more complicated once I start define the
    interaction between different event types

webidl

    shepazu: I was thinking to use webidl in the spec

    Travis: do it!
    ... make sure to use the latest editor's draft

vendor extensions

    smaug: I agree, use webidl

    Travis: why are we adding namespaces to the spec?

    shepazu: I'd have to go and look back about de-centralization
    ... having namespace support allows people to add their own events
    ... JS libraries can add their own events
    ... Anne would like to remove namespaces

    <annevk> I brought it up a few times, I'm certainly not the only one

    <annevk> e.g. I'm pretty sure Maciej agrees with me

    Travis: so web pages can implement their own events without
    interfering with others

    <annevk> and Ian, etc. see the old threads

    Travis: though, isn't prefix + event name the same thing.

    as namespace + event name

    Travis: I'll have our team reviewing the draft

    shepazu: the draft has been around for a long time, and namespaces
    have been there

    Travis: I think it is ok to keep namespaces
    ... vendors could continue to use prefixes, or use namespaces

    <annevk> shepazu, objections to namespaces have likewise been around
    for a long time

    <annevk> that's not a reason :)

    <shepazu> annevk, people use them in production code, that is a
    reason

keyboard layout

    <annevk> not on web sites

    <annevk> there's no browser that is shipping with namespace support

    <annevk> there's no reason for us to implement them

    <shepazu> annevk, if you want to join the telcon, then do so

    (the world is not just about browser)

    (the world is not just about browsers)

    shepazu: there is the case where people are using keyboard layout

    <annevk> shepazu, midnight here

    shepazu: and we did decide that we don't cover that
    ... but I added something about keyboard layout

    <annevk> (not sure what that has to do with anything)

    shepazu: I have the idea for another spec to define keyboard layout
    handling in web page
    ... the keyboard layout section is just a hint for authors
    ... any objections to put that

    Travis: I like it

    shepazu: I'll mark it as informative

DOMContentLoaded, DOMWindowClose, and AfterPaint

    smaug: DOMContentLoaded is already defined in HTML5

    shepazu: SVG would benefit it
    ... there is a good reason to have events for "everything is in
    place" and "page is rendered"

    Travis: we were looking at DOMContentLoaded
    ... HTML5 doesn't define whether DOMContentLoaded before or after
    loading CSS
    ... jQuery people wanted to have an event for "CSS loaded"
    ... maybe CSSContentLoaded?

    smaug: there is the readyState for document
    ... maybe that kind of mechanism could be reused

    Travis: I'll post something to mailing list

    shepazu: I'd call it StyleContentLoaded

    smaug: StyleContentLoaded sounds useful, but should go to HTML5

other things

    Travis: about resize event
    ... only IE supports resize on elements
    ... IE fires it for example when <div> is resized.

    shepazu: could you send an email to the list

    smaug: resize on elements might be implement on gecko soon

    Travis: .detail on resize?

    smaug: on gecko they are just normal events

    Travis: should composition events bubble?

    smaug: I think they do on gecko

    Travis: what about cancelling them?

    shepazu: maybe they can't be cancellable
    ... not sure if browser can control IME

    Travis: you definitely don't want to cancel the compositionend

    shepazu: but what if someone cancel composition
    ... should ask masayuki about composition events
    ... there many different kinds of IMEs
    ... maybe compostionupdate should not be cancelable, others should

    Travis: cancelling compositionstart should prevent IME?
    ... default action is to launch IME
    ... compostionupdate could be not cancelable for now, unless there
    is some usecase
    ... end would be cancelable

    smaug: would be good to be able cancel compositionend

    shepazu: I think we agreed about canceling events

    Travis: add a row for all the events about default actions

    <scribe> ACTION: travis to send email about StyleContentLoaded
    [recorded in
    [21]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/09-webapps-minutes.html#action02]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-402 - Send email about StyleContentLoaded
    [on Travis Leithead - due 2009-09-16].

    <scribe> ACTION: travis to send email about resize event [recorded
    in [22]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/09-webapps-minutes.html#action03]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-403 - Send email about resize event [on
    Travis Leithead - due 2009-09-16].

    <scribe> ACTION: travis to send email about namespaces, and vendor
    prefixes [recorded in
    [23]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/09-webapps-minutes.html#action04]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-404 - Send email about namespaces, and
    vendor prefixes [on Travis Leithead - due 2009-09-16].

    <shepazu> trackbot, end telcon

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: smaug to check gecko's key event handling during
    composition events [recorded in
    [24]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/09-webapps-minutes.html#action01]
    [NEW] ACTION: travis to send email about namespaces, and vendor
    prefixes [recorded in
    [25]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/09-webapps-minutes.html#action04]
    [NEW] ACTION: travis to send email about resize event [recorded in
    [26]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/09-webapps-minutes.html#action03]
    [NEW] ACTION: travis to send email about StyleContentLoaded
    [recorded in
    [27]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/09-webapps-minutes.html#action02]

    [End of minutes]
Received on Wednesday, 9 September 2009 22:57:26 GMT

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