W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-dom@w3.org > April to June 2009

Re: Minutes: DOM3 Events Telcon (telecon times)

From: Olli Pettay <Olli.Pettay@helsinki.fi>
Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 21:46:44 +0300
Message-ID: <4A296814.3060506@helsinki.fi>
To: "www-dom@w3.org" <www-dom@w3.org>
CC: Doug Schepers <schepers@w3.org>
Hi all,

For me the best days are Wednesday and Thursday, 10:00am-01:00am (EET).
Monday and Tuesday evenings/nights are also possible.


-Olli

On 6/4/09 2:28 AM, Travis Leithead wrote:
> Jacob and I are available for telecons 8-5 pm (perhaps a little later if needed).
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: www-dom-request@w3.org [mailto:www-dom-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Doug Schepers
> Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 3:23 PM
> To: www-dom@w3.org
> Subject: Minutes: DOM3 Events Telcon
>
> Hi, Folks-
>
> The minutes for the 3 June 2009 DOM3 Events telcon can be found here:
>
>    http://www.w3.org/2009/06/03-webapps-minutes.html
>
> Or as text below:
>
>      [1]W3C
>
>         [1] http://www.w3.org/
>
>                                  - DRAFT -
>
>                Web Applications Working Group Teleconference
>
> 03 Jun 2009
>
>      See also: [2]IRC log
>
>         [2] http://www.w3.org/2009/06/03-webapps-irc
>
> Attendees
>
>      Present
>             Shepazu, smaug, Travis, MSjacob
>
>      Regrets
>      Chair
>             SV_MEETING_CHAIR
>
>      Scribe
>             MSjacob
>
> Contents
>
>        * [3]Topics
>            1. [4]new telcon times
>            2. [5]Mutation Events
>            3. [6]diagrams, because they are pretty
>        * [7]Summary of Action Items
>        _________________________________________________________
>
>
>
>      <trackbot>  Date: 03 June 2009
>
>      <smaug>  is there a call today?
>
>      <Travis>  yep!
>
>      <smaug>  just a minute
>
>      <smaug>  ok, now I need to find the phonenumber...
>
>      <shepazu>  scribeNic: MSjacob
>
>      <shepazu>  scribeNick: MSjacob
>
> new telcon times
>
>      <shepazu>  shepazu: we have a new participant, Daniel from Google
>      Wave
>
>      shepazu: flexible on new telcom time
>      ... Send preferences for telcom times to www-DOM mailing list.
>
> Mutation Events
>
>      shepazu: useful, pain, not performant
>
>      Travis: can't deprecate
>
>      shepazu: can put something in place to replace them
>      ... shouldn't change the way they work now
>
>      Travis: agree
>
>      shepazu: bad perf better than breaking content
>
>      Travis: are all mutation events slow?
>
>      shepazu: will put in spec the ones that perform slowly, use these
>      that operate better
>
>      Travis: JS Ninjas proposed alternate API (maybe from Dean Edwards)
>      watchSelector, mutation event w/ callback based on a filter
>      ... probably use cases for this and the mutation events
>      ... selector based solution doesn't let you watch attributes
>      ... workaround: use x path
>      ... mostly need to know when one node changes
>
>      shepazu: steve sauders says CSS selectors end up being
>      "malperformant" because people don't realize there are optimal and
>      suboptimal ways of selecting
>      ... after dev, will this selector-based solution actually be more
>      performant?
>
>      Travis: it could be
>
>      shepazu: should have conversation on mailing list, if someone can
>      implement it would be great to work on facts
>
>      Travis: could try to harvest feedback on mutation events, if there
>      is a problem we could solve w/ a new performant mutation event we
>      could just add that
>      ... maybe officially deprecate but wouldn't be obsolete
>
>      smaug: agree
>
>      shepazu: two reports from mozilla: we dont have plans to implement
>      DOMsubtreemodified, we might even remove some of the others
>      ... probably very small X-browser mutation events
>
>      Travis: doesn't say we don't include in DOM L3 events
>      ... action to start dicuss on mailing list about possible additional
>      solutions that solve the mut. events problem, find existing perf
>      problems and maybe ways to solve them
>
>      <smaug>
>      [8]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-dom/2009JanMar/0007.html
>
>         [8] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-dom/2009JanMar/0007.html
>
>      <smaug>  Gecko does support DOMSubtreeModified
>
>      <smaug>  I implemented it :p
>
>      Travis: would love to see more edits of spec as they come
>
>      shepazu: hixie requested more explanation of what each event should
>      do and when it should be fired
>      ... next thing to go through and add more detail about the events
>      ... jacob: come up with stuff on your own, run things by the rest of
>      team
>
>      Travis: and doug and the rest of the guys
>
>      <shepazu>  ACTION: Travis to send in proposal from CSS Ninjas
>      [recorded in
>      [9]http://www.w3.org/2009/06/03-webapps-minutes.html#action01]
>
>      <trackbot>  Created ACTION-350 - Send in proposal from CSS Ninjas [on
>      Travis Leithead - due 2009-06-10].
>
>      shepazu: action for Travis: send in proposal from the JS (CSS)
>      Ninjas
>
> diagrams, because they are pretty
>
>      Travis: did you use SVG?
>
>      shepazu: yes
>
>      <shepazu>
>      [10]http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/DOM-Level-3-Events/html/DOM3-Event
>      s.html#events-Events-flow
>
>        [10]
> http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/DOM-Level-3-Events/html/DOM3-Events.html#events-Events-flow
>
>      shepazu: added window and made more pretty to events flow
>
>      Travis: beautiful
>      ... do these events bubble outside windows (like window in window)
>
>      shepazu: they don't
>      ... if you have an iframe, it will not leave the iframe
>      ... maybe in HTML5, hixie might have provided a way to do that
>
>      Travis: i think IE does do something like that
>
>      shepazu: one exception maybe, in same domain
>      ... should be secure, but shouldn't do it in other scenarios
>
>      Travis: makes sense
>
>      shepazu: maybe worth noting events do not bubble outside the window
>      ... by default, events do not bubble outside window. Under certain
>      circumstances, a user agent may allow this when it's determined not
>      to be a security risk
>
>      Travis: jacob needs to look at seamless
>
>      shepazu: unrelated, for svg we're looking at a way to do parameters.
>      for example, a button you want to reuse but alter params.
>      ... useful way of messaging things between frames
>
>      <shepazu>
>      [11]http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/DOM-Level-3-Events/proposals/d3e-k
>      eyflow.svg
>
>        [11]
> http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/DOM-Level-3-Events/proposals/d3e-keyflow.svg
>
>      <shepazu>
>      [12]http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/DOM-Level-3-Events/proposals/keyfl
>      ow-gecko.svg
>
>        [12]
> http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/DOM-Level-3-Events/proposals/keyflow-gecko.svg
>
>      shepazu: first one may be nice and pretty but not as accurate
>      ... first chart attempt at indicating how the text input is
>      generated
>
>      Travis: I think we need to do the same thing for IEs moddle
>
>      shepazu: please do
>      ... if we can get b/w IE and Mozilla teams (and maybe Daniel from
>      Google Wave) to provide script library to let people use new model
>      on older stuff and go forward with this new model
>
>      Travis: I love it
>
>      shepazu: rare opportunity to get it right in a majority of
>      languages. will also bring in a intern'l expert in on this.
>      ... do we black box it or actually work up an IME model
>
>      Travis: If there's a great public IME creation system, that would be
>      great
>
>      shepazu: Certain points on a slower connection that you might want
>      to only do things after certain chars (like a space after a word in
>      an AJAX lookup scenario)
>
>      Travis: looks like the FF one is pretty accurate. Need to do some
>      thought analysis on this.
>
>      shepazu: happy to prettify / unify these
>      ... would like to include as appendix in DOM3 events for interest in
>      the old models
>      ... smaug make sure yours is accurate, Travis MSjacob make a similar
>      one for IE
>      ... then I will try to unify
>
>      <shepazu>  ACTION: smaug to confirm gecko keyflow diagram [recorded
>      in [13]http://www.w3.org/2009/06/03-webapps-minutes.html#action02]
>
>      <trackbot>  Created ACTION-351 - Confirm gecko keyflow diagram [on
>      Olli Pettay - due 2009-06-10].
>
>      <shepazu>  ACTION: Travis to create and send in IE keyflow diagram
>      [recorded in
>      [14]http://www.w3.org/2009/06/03-webapps-minutes.html#action03]
>
>      <trackbot>  Created ACTION-352 - Create and send in IE keyflow
>      diagram [on Travis Leithead - due 2009-06-10].
>
>      shepazu: don't forget to send in preferred times for telecon
>      ... any other questions
>
>      Travis: link to spec is latest editors draft?
>
>      shepazu: yes
>
>      Travis: are the parts that are more/less stable that should be
>      focused on?
>
>      shepazu: unstable: mutation events, keyboard events
>      ... and wheel events
>
>      Travis: never closed on line/pixel scrolling
>
>      shepazu: got into ideas in different kinds of wheel events
>      ... more stable: mouse events
>      ... people have asked for additional mouse events
>      ... plans for more advanced ui events (multi touch, pen and tablet)
>
>      <shepazu>  Wacom
>
>      shepazu: should consult with waycom
>      ... hoping to get them involved in what they want to see on the web
>      ... right now they deal with designers on the desktop, but things
>      are moving to the web
>
>      <shepazu>  trackbot, make minutes
>
>      <trackbot>  Sorry, shepazu, I don't understand 'trackbot, make
>      minutes'. Please refer to [15]http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc
>      for help
>
>        [15] http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc
>
> Summary of Action Items
>
>      [NEW] ACTION: smaug to confirm gecko keyflow diagram [recorded in
>      [16]http://www.w3.org/2009/06/03-webapps-minutes.html#action02]
>      [NEW] ACTION: Travis to create and send in IE keyflow diagram
>      [recorded in
>      [17]http://www.w3.org/2009/06/03-webapps-minutes.html#action03]
>      [NEW] ACTION: Travis to send in proposal from CSS Ninjas [recorded
>      in [18]http://www.w3.org/2009/06/03-webapps-minutes.html#action01]
>
>      [End of minutes]
>
>
Received on Friday, 5 June 2009 18:47:19 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Friday, 22 June 2012 06:14:00 GMT