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Re: rdfs:Graph ? comment on http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf11-concepts/#section-dataset and issue 35

From: Andy Seaborne <andy@apache.org>
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2013 11:15:37 +0100
Message-ID: <51F39DC9.3000505@apache.org>
To: Jeremy J Carroll <jjc@syapse.com>
CC: Eric Prud'hommeaux <eric@w3.org>, "www-archive@w3.org" <www-archive@w3.org>, Pat Hayes <phayes@ihmc.us>, "Peter F. Patel-Schneider" <pfpschneider@gmail.com>, Sandro Hawke <sandro@w3.org>
On 26/07/13 23:21, Jeremy J Carroll wrote:
> Ah, and I just came across some other relevant text:
>
> http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/REC-sparql11-query-20130321/#namedGraphs
>
> The |FROM NAMED| syntax suggests that the IRI identifies the
> corresponding graph, but the relationship between an IRI and a graph in
> an RDF dataset is indirect.*The IRI identifies a resource, and the
> resource is represented by a graph (or, more precisely: by a document
> that serializes a graph).*
>
>
> Given that the text in bold is already normative, am I detecting some
> part of the RDF WG that somehow wishes to go back on that. I do not
> believe that my ideal outcome would be no more than the text in bold.
>
>
>
> Jeremy J Carroll
> Principal Architect
> Syapse, Inc.


and indeed it is in SPARQL 1.0, so this has been around awhile.

http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-sparql-query/#namedGraphs

It is discussing the "FROM NAMED" syntax so one can argue it's 
restricted to that.  The RDF Dataset definition does not refer or 
contain that material.  So it's one example, not the only case.

http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-sparql-query/#defn_RDFDataset

There are several interesting points about Jeremy's use case:

1/ It seems to be a very reasonable thing to want to do.

2/ It's about the acting of asserting/publishing the graph.
(I read it assuming if you GET the URLs, you get the graph back, at 
least conceptually - is that true Jeremy?)

3/ There is context
 >>> I want to say simple stuff like who wrote a graph named
 >>> in the dataset.

talks about the graph in a context (dataset, not web).

But if you add all the modelling for the act of writing a graph named
in the dataset, it gets unwieldy.

I think this is one source of the pushback on pure denotes-graph design 
(see also some criticisms of reification).

4/

my:graph {
    my:graph dc:creator "Jeremy J. Carroll" .
}

and the definition of dc:creator is given as:
"An entity primarily responsible for making the resource."

so did Jeremy "make" the graph? Or maybe "make" the named graph?

[[
   rdf:Graph
      rdf:Graph is the class of RDF Graphs as defined by RDF Concepts.
]]

I don't think a graph can be "made" by that definition; it just "is".

	Andy
Received on Saturday, 27 July 2013 10:16:21 UTC

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