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Re: another example of HTML5 conformance and advice divergence

From: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 23:01:14 +0200
Message-ID: <CA+ri+V=nN_eZs7cUrRUuL9Ho9=eKhroW2RGd9o=c1seak3X7Ug@mail.gmail.com>
To: Jeff Jaffe <jeff@w3.org>
Cc: Philippe Le Hegaret <plh@w3.org>, www-archive <www-archive@w3.org>, Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>, Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>, Paul Cotton <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com>, "Michael(tm) Smith" <mike@w3.org>, Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>
Hi Jeff,

I was simply agreeing with Philippes statement:

"At the end of the day however, the Working Group doesn't control
documents from other Working Groups or that are being published outside
the W3C website."

Thus the W3C has no control over the HTML standard as produced by the
WHATWG, which claims to be HTML5 and contains normative conformance
requirements that contradict the W3C HTML5 specification.


regards
Stevef

On 18 April 2012 22:50, Jeff Jaffe <jeff@w3.org> wrote:

>  On 4/18/2012 8:36 AM, Steve Faulkner wrote:
>
> Hi Philippe,
>
>
>
> "Historically speaking, it has always been the case that
> developer documentation on browser websites or alternative websites have
> differences."
>
> Yes and historically this has lead to problems for developers and users.
> In any case we are not talking about alternative, unofficial differences,
> we are talking about 2 specifications both claiming to canonically define
> HTML5, how it is to be implemented and how it is to be used.
>
>  1.2 Is this HTML5?
>>
>> In short: Yes.
>>
> source:
> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/introduction.html#is-this-html5
> ?
>
> Anyway, I understand that the W3C has no control of the HTML standard.
>
>
> I don't see how you reached your conclusion.
>
> W3C is publishing HTML 5 through a disciplined process.  Bugs and issues
> are resolved in a collaborative process led by the Chairs of the Working
> Group.  This work is certainly also done collaboratively with WHAT WG as is
> indicated in the above link.
>
> Perhaps your point is that it would have been clearer if things were
> phrased differently from the way that they are phrased in the non-normative
> section of the document you reference above.  If that is the assertion, I
> would agree.
>
>
>
>
> regards
>
> Stevef
>
> On 18 April 2012 11:39, Philippe Le Hegaret <plh@w3.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi Steve,
>>
>> Thank you for the information.
>>
>> The HTML Working Group only controls what goes in the W3C HTML5
>> specification and makes the decision of how much such divergence needs
>> to be. At the end of the day however, the Working Group doesn't control
>> documents from other Working Groups or that are being published outside
>> the W3C website. Historically speaking, it has always been the case that
>> developer documentation on browser websites or alternative websites have
>> differences. We also have to recognize that we don't control authoring
>> tools or Web developers either. That's the nature of the Web and the
>> nature of our effort to spread what we believe are good practices and
>> advices. People and groups are entitled to their own opinions. We
>> certainly expect that the Working Group seek convergence instead of
>> divergence and makes informed decisions when divergence happens. That's
>> part of the value of the Working Group and, while the current group
>> operation mode isn't smooth and has a high toll on the Group
>> participants, it is still important to move HTML forward.
>>
>> Philippe
>>
>> On Wed, 2012-04-18 at 09:58 +0200, Steve Faulkner wrote:
>> >
>> > FYI
>> >
>> > Recent HTML WG decisions have resulted in title attribute use on an
>> > image without an alt attribute no longer being conforming in W3C HTML5
>> > but continuing to be conforming in WHATWG HTML. The WHATWG HTML also
>> > continues to advocate the use of the title attribute in cases that
>> > have a negative impact on accessibility for a range of users, while
>> > the advice has been removed from W3C HTML5
>> >
>> >         1.2 Is this HTML5?
>> >         The W3C HTML specification omits a number of suggestions
>> >         regarding using the title attribute, and makes using the title
>> >         attribute for captions non-conforming in certain specific
>> >         cases, because of a number of working group chair decisions
>> >         from March 2012: first, second, third.
>> >
>> > source:
>> >
>> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/introduction.html#is-this-html5
>> ?
>> >
>> > regards
>> > Stevef
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> with regards
>
> Steve Faulkner
> Technical Director - TPG
>
> www.paciellogroup.com | www.HTML5accessibility.com |
> www.twitter.com/stevefaulkner
> HTML5: Techniques for providing useful text alternatives -
> dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/
> Web Accessibility Toolbar - www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html
>
>
>
>


-- 
with regards

Steve Faulkner
Technical Director - TPG

www.paciellogroup.com | www.HTML5accessibility.com |
www.twitter.com/stevefaulkner
HTML5: Techniques for providing useful text alternatives -
dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/
Web Accessibility Toolbar - www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html
Received on Wednesday, 18 April 2012 21:02:08 UTC

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