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Re: PF Response: @Summary

From: Leif Halvard Silli <lhs@malform.no>
Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 03:47:18 +0200
Message-ID: <4A287926.9050500@malform.no>
To: Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>
CC: Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>, Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>, Chris Wilson <Chris.Wilson@microsoft.com>, Michael Cooper <cooper@w3.org>, Dan Connolly <connolly@w3.org>, Mike Smith <mike@w3.org>, W3C WAI Protocols & Formats <w3c-wai-pf@w3.org>, Gez Lemon <gez.lemon@gmail.com>, Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>, "wai-liaison@w3.org" <wai-liaison@w3.org>, John Foliot <jfoliot@stanford.edu>, www-archive <www-archive@w3.org>, public-html@w3.org
Janina,

Ian Hickson On 09-06-04 07.19:
> On Wed, 3 Jun 2009, Janina Sajka:
>> We request the table summary tag be restored in HTML 5

>> Rationale:
>>
>> Summary serves a need

> HTML5 attempts to solve the problem using the <caption> element. I 
> understand that PF may not have the bandwidth to review this proposal, but 
> I do not believe that we should let PF's limited resources prevent 
> potential progress in the development of accessible HTML.

I hope that PF will review Ian's proposal in order to help the 
HTML working group in assessing it. (Saying that we should look at 
<canvas> rather than solving @summary really doesn't help.)

To perhaps kickstart a response: Our wikipage SummaryForTabe[1] 
identifies as primary problem the fact that Ian hasn't proposed a 
_programmatically-determined_ summary mechanism. The wiki points 
to WCAG 2.0 a definition of "programmatically-determined":[2]

	"Content that can be "programmatically determined" can be 
transformed (by user agents including AT) into different sensory 
formats (e.g., visual, auditory) or styles of presentation need by 
individual users. If existing assistive technologies cannot do 
this, then the information cannot be said to be programmatically 
determined."

Simply put, this means that the table summary has to be 
semantically marked up as separate from the table caption.  And 
since Ian's proposal only lumps everything into <caption> without 
separating between what is captioning content and what is 
summarizing content, his proposal falls through on this point.

I think it would be quite beneficial to focus on this particular 
point to bring the debate forward.

[1] http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/SummaryForTABLE
[2] 
http://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/conformance#uc-programmatically-determined-head
-- 
leif halvard silli
Received on Friday, 5 June 2009 01:48:07 GMT

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