- From: Larry Masinter <masinter@adobe.com>
- Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 06:33:01 -0700
- To: Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>, Lachlan Hunt <lachlan.hunt@lachy.id.au>
- CC: www-archive <www-archive@w3.org>, "Michael(tm) Smith" <mike@w3.org>, Chris Wilson <Chris.Wilson@microsoft.com>
Sam, As I noted in previous mail, publishing a working draft is purely a procedural matter, since the editor's drafts are "Published" in any reasonable sense of the word, and claiming that we are publishing a Working Draft does not actually help resolve any of the technical issues -- in fact, in my opinion, publishing working drafts which have more controversy rather than less is disruptive to the process. The working group is at absolutely no risk if it does not meet the "heartbeat" requirement until we get clarity on the issue I raise about the nature of announcements from W3C around such a process. There is no "hostage" here, and not publishing the editor's draft as a Working Draft does not prevent or interfere with any additional work on the documents. The only actual effect of publishing a new working draft is to cause some misleading publicity as the W3C announces the availability of a new working draft. If the idea that alternative drafts are going to be acceptable is going to have any credibility, then something has to happen to make that clear. I know you are saying my objection is "without merit", but, on the other hand, you have not actually responded to the issue I am raising. As for "contributions", I think I have been putting considerable effort into resolving several deep and serious technical issues that would otherwise stop the publication of HTML5 eventually: * around the "willful violation" of the URI specification and the conflict between the Internationalized Domain Name standards and the HTML5 spec, by working on a combined specification that will be suitable for HTML5 to reference, * around the handling of the "Origin" header and its conflict with the advice of the HTTPbis working group, * around version identifiers and resolving the DOCTYPE controversy, * around trying to resolve the criticisms that the current document is a "browser" specification by being more explicit about providing guidance for "conservative authors" as well as "liberal interpreters" as well as several other troubling issues on authoring conformance criteria, specification quality, the "outline" algorithm, the use of algorithmic definitions and the errors in the specification of the state transitions for image availability... I resent deeply your suggestion that I am not focusing on contributing constructively. The fact that I am not actively editing specification language doesn't mean that I'm not contributing constructively. As far as actually editing documents: I personally am concerned about engaging in editing documents from WhatWG rather than in W3C space because of the unknown IPR around them, and hope that if the working group endorses a process of "forking" the source code, the copyright of the "source" document contributors are supposed to start with be clearly marked as belonging W3C. (Others may not have the same qualms.) Larry -- http://larry.masinter.net -----Original Message----- From: Sam Ruby [mailto:rubys@intertwingly.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 5:59 AM To: Lachlan Hunt Cc: Larry Masinter; www-archive; Michael(tm) Smith; Chris Wilson Subject: Re: Publishing a new draft Lachlan Hunt wrote: > Larry Masinter wrote: >> I object to the working group ONLY publishing a new draft of >> the Hixie fork of the HTML5 specification, because the industry >> and the public are already confused enough about the state of >> the activities of the W3C HTML working group and the process >> we are embarking on. >> >> My objection would be satisfied if we also simultaneously published >> Mike Smith's document and/or Manu's fork as First Public Working >> Drafts along with a clear public explanation of the process we >> are now engaging. > > Drafts should be published or not based on their own merits. Holding > one draft hostage based on the success of another, or lack thereof, is > very much an obstructionist tactic, and I don't think the group, or the > chairs, should tolerate such behaviour. I do consider Larry's objection to be totally without merit. I also believe that Larry has had ample opportunity to actively contribute to the other documents that he cited, and the primary reason in my opinion that those documents are not ready to be considered at this time is that he and others have simply failed to do so. The three-month heartbeat requirement for publishing is not a suggestion. It's a "must" requirement that the group is expected to work in good faith to meet. http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/groups.html#three-month-rule The exact wording of the relevant part of the Process document is: Each Working Group must publish a new draft of at least one of its active technical reports on the W3C technical reports index at least once every three months. I invite Larry to reconsider his objection and focus on contributing constructively, but if he declines to do so, I'm confident that a vote on Ian's draft will pass overwhelmingly, and I don't relish the thought of arguing with Larry over procedural matters. - Sam Ruby
Received on Wednesday, 29 July 2009 13:34:03 UTC