W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-archive@w3.org > August 2009

Re: [Ietf-honest] Adding people to the honest IETF list

From: Noah Slater <nslater@tumbolia.org>
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 17:48:41 +0100
To: Dean Anderson <dean@av8.com>
Cc: Nicolas Williams <Nicolas.Williams@sun.com>, www-archive@w3.org, ietf-honest@lists.iadl.org
Message-ID: <20090826164841.GA13501@tumbolia.org>
On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 09:18:19PM -0400, Dean Anderson wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Aug 2009, Noah Slater wrote:
> > On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 08:00:11PM -0400, Dean Anderson wrote:
> > > I already have permission to contact other IETF members. I do not need
> > > to ask again.
> >
> > Who gave you permission to contact me? I would like to have a word with them.
> Noah Slater did, on July 23rd, 2009, when he sent a message to the IETF
> list soliciting communications with other IETF members on IETF business.

The message I posted is available here:


Please indicate to me the part where I solicit contact:

  * In general, from you

  * In general, on any and all matters relating to IETF business

  * Or in fact, on any topic not related to Mark Nottingham's Internet Draft

Posting to an IETF list, or any list in fact, is not a solicitation for future
contact from any person on any subject they deem to be tangentially related to
the topic of that list. Posting to a list does not even indicate that you wish
to receive responses from that list.

That you persist with this absurd argument is just baffling.

> > > This is precisely why mailman and other mailsystems have the capacity to add
> > > people this way.
> >
> > Ah, so if it exists as a program, it is okay to use it for whatever purpose?
> I didn't say that. I said that it is OK to subscribe people to mailing
> lists when you have their permission, (as I do).  Mailing list program
> authors know this and provide facilities for automated subscription
> (which I used)

You didn't have my permission, as I have already told you.

> > > I've made no claim that only UCE is spam. What I've said is that
> > > ietf-honest is NOT spam.  There is no reasonable argument that it
> > > ietf-honest is unsolicited.
> >
> > I don't know how to respond to such an absurd claim apart from
> > reminding you that you added me to this mailing list without me asking
> > you to, and then to point you to a definition of what "unsolicited"
> > means.
> >
> > So, here goes:
> >
> >   * You added me to this mailing list without me asking you to.
> >
> > Please see http://www.answers.com/unsolicited for more information.
> You posted a message IETF list soliciting communication with other IETF
> members on July 23rd, 2009. My response and the ietf-honest list is not
> unsolicited.  Your frivolously false statements to the contrary just
> discredit you.

I don't understand the politics behind this list you created, or why you split
from the IETF, or why you maintain a website that "exposes" people for various
things, or why you think that you are being censored by The Powers That Be, or
why you were so quick to publicly accuse me of being in cahoots with a list of
people who's names I did not know before complaining about your behaviour, but
I am reminded of the following observation:

  Any technical group of sufficient size and activity will spontaneously
  generate its very own sociopath.

                                                                - Joe Gregorio

With the corollary that if you can't scan the list and them, it's you.

> > > > I don't want to have to do that.  I want whoever subscribed me
> > > > (Dean?) to unsubscribe me.
> > >
> > > Each message has instructions on how to unsubscribe.  I will not
> > > unsubscribe people who know how to unsubscribe themselves for just
> > > the reason cited above.
> > >
> > > I will not unsubscribe you. Your annoyance-making discredits you,
> > > not me.
> >
> > I am happy having my name associated with these mails. Are you?
> I'm perfectly happy having my name on this. I keep playing with you,
> right? And I think you're well on you way to joining the ranks of other
> people documented on iadl.org. You sort remind me of Chris Neill.

Please make sure to properly link my name to my homepage.

> Your veiled threats of abuse are not going to sway me. I've been
> threatened with physical violence by Vixie cronies, and they didn't sway
> me. You'll find I'm a very patient person.  Though some do say I have
> absolutely no patience for fools, I have nearly infinite patience for
> trolls like yourself.

I've not threatened you once.

Not even with legal action when you implied that you publicly defame me.

All I wanted was an explanation, and maybe even an apology.


Noah Slater, http://tumbolia.org/nslater
Received on Wednesday, 26 August 2009 16:49:24 UTC

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