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Re: [Ietf-honest] Adding people to the honest IETF list

From: Noah Slater <nslater@tumbolia.org>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:07:04 +0100
To: Dean Anderson <dean@av8.com>
Cc: Alan DeKok <aland@deployingradius.com>, Nicolas Williams <Nicolas.Williams@sun.com>, ietf-honest@lists.iadl.org, www-archive@w3.org
Message-ID: <20090825140704.GD11907@tumbolia.org>
On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 10:45:06PM -0400, Dean Anderson wrote:
> I don't know why Noah Slater added www-archive@w3.org to the cc list,
> but I have left it.

I want my complaints archived where they cannot be deleted.

> Spammers send you viagra advertisements because you participated in the
> IETF.  By contrast, IETF-honest participants are sending you messages on
> IETF business.

As an example, when I subscribe to a mailing list to report a bug in some
software, I am not giving people the permission to send me commit log messages,
bug tracker messages, wiki change emails, development discussions, release
announcements, or general news about that software. Thankfully, for me at least,
my interest in things is a little more fine grained than that.

Similarly, when I subscribe to an IETF list to send a comment about an Internet
Draft, I do not expect to be added to a random mailing list to discuss IETF
politics; regardless of how important YOU happen to think it is.

> Of course participation in one forum does not imply participation in a
> different forum. But this is not a forum, but a means of communicating
> IETF business.  There is only one forum: The IETF business forum.

I don't care about IETF business.

> You have not been asked to take a position. You are informed of the
> facts.  What you do with the facts is up to you.  However, these facts
> are the root cause of needing additional mailing lists to communicate
> IETF business.
> Also note that the ISOC was formed in 1992 to take the Internet
> standards out of the government, Vint Cerf and other ISOC incorporators
> made promises never to close participation. They have plainly violated
> those promises.

Seriously, I don't care.

> In organizations (whether incorporated or not incorporated), where there
> are no membership standards, participation demonstrates membership.
> The IETF is open to the public and has no membership standards; You have
> participated in the IETF, and are therefore a member.


> > When I subscribe or post to a specific mailing list, I do so on my own
> > terms and for my own reasons. I am NOT indicating general permission
> > for anyone to contact me about topics which may or may not be
> > tangentially related to that list.
> Actually, you do give permission to contact you on the topics of IETF
> business.

You are deluding yourself.


Noah Slater, http://tumbolia.org/nslater
Received on Tuesday, 25 August 2009 14:07:59 UTC

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