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RE: new annotation software

From: Bryan Thompson <bryan-pop@cog-tech.com>
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 10:45:51 -0400
Message-ID: <01BFBA6C.E971D910@nt.internal.cog-tech.com>
To: "'Julie Gibson'" <julieg@weborganic.com>, Bryan Thompson <bryan@cog-tech.com>
Cc: "jgarfunk@bbn.com" <jgarfunk@bbn.com>, "www-annotation@w3.org" <www-annotation@w3.org>, "annotate@cog-tech.com" <annotate@cog-tech.com>
Julie,

I looked over your product and the business model that you are following.  

Excerpting myself, I wrote:

I see a problem with managing scale for annotation systems.  This includes the problem of managing topics, the definitions of those topics, and the specific referents in documents that serve as seeds points for annotations.  It also includes managing the aggregation and abstraction of annotations and leveraging the expressed knowledge for search and decision making support.

As you can see, from my other post, I feel that a broader range of solutions is necessary.  I am interested, and maybe we should take the discussion of business models out of the group, in why you chose the specific business model, which is clearly tied to your assertion that

We think that the ability of the user to define the exact, fine grained position of
a comment interferes with the readability of the page once several users have made
additions so we favour the concept of the page's owner being able to manage the
annotations by both specifying their position and also by having control over their existence. 

Your other point,

This makes us at an opposite pole from third voice but there is purpose
for both approaches. At least all of our annotations can be collected in one database by the owner and made use of.

is also very interesting.  I feel that there should be interchange and encryption support for annotation and collaborative systems.  I am particularly loath to create content in a database owned by a third party (e.g., ThirdVoice).  The lack of interchange standards means that I can not obtain copies of that information and limits my ability to develop intelligent behaviors that exploit the annotation base to create information or services.  Collaborative systems without open source implementations (or an least standardized and exposed interfaces) make it difficult to integrate that technology to create new products and services.

Encryption support would let people safely leverage a third party system technology for sensitive discussions, e.g., to apply a public annotation portal for discussing business internals.  I feel that, by combining encryption and interchange, we can create new, perhaps transactional, business models for annotation and other collaboration and knowledge management services.

-bryan thompson
bryan@cog-tech.com


-----Original Message-----
From:	Julie Gibson [SMTP:julieg@weborganic.com]
Sent:	Saturday, May 06, 2000 10:54 PM
To:	Bryan Thompson
Cc:	jgarfunk@bbn.com; www-annotation@w3.org; annotate@cog-tech.com
Subject:	Re: new annotation software

My last post did not actually describe PageSeeder so I thought I'd better add that
we use Java servlets, XML and XLink   to create the  PageSeeder(tm) system.
We use the concept of a Seed  to facilitate user interaction on web pages. Seeds
are
defined by the author of a page at places where they would like users to be able to
add their own comments.

We think that the ability of the user to define the exact, fine grained position of
a comment interferes with the readability of the page once several users have made
additions so we favour the concept of the page's owner being able to manage the
annotations by both specifying their position and also by having control over their
existence. This makes us at an opposite pole from third voice but there is purpose
for both approaches. At least all of our annotations can be collected in one
database by the owner and made use of.

You can see an exact description of the architecture at
http://www.weborganic.com/pageseeder/architect/architecture.shtml

Cheers
Julie G

Bryan Thompson wrote:

> > Jon,
>
> I am in the process of creating an open source project to build an annotation
> server capable of fine grained annotations and interoperable with XLink and
> WebDAV engines.  Are you still interested in such a venture?
>
> -bryan thompson
> bryan@cog-tech.com
>
> > Re: new annotation software
> >
> > From: Jon Garfunkel (jgarfunk@bbn.com)
> > Date: Thu, Jan 27 2000
> >
> >    * Previous message: Laurent Denoue: "new annotation software"
> >    * In reply to: Laurent Denoue: "new annotation software"
> >    * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
> >    * Other mail archives: [this mailing list] [other W3C mailing lists]
> >    * Mail actions: [ respond to this message ] [ mail a new topic ]
> >
> >   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.20000127100354.010321c4@manitoba.bbn.com>
> > Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:03:54 -0500
> > To: www-annotation@w3.org
> > From: Jon Garfunkel <jgarfunk@bbn.com>
> > Subject: Re: new annotation software
> >
> > At 10:24 AM 1/27/2000 +0100, you wrote:
> > >It's been a while I've not posted anything to this mailing list, but I found
> > >yesterday a new program to annotate any Web page.
> > >See www.imarkup.com
> > >This is very well done, you can highlight any text, use brushes to draw on
> > the
> > >page, also attach notes...
> > >You can send an annotated page by email.
> >
> > But with imarkup you can't exchange annotations with a server. Pfui.
> > Probably because there is no W3 standard for doing so. Which we'll need to
> > do one of these days.
> >
> > I still want to find the time to develop a compatible ThirdVoice server...
> > anybody else have interested in this?
> >
> > FYI, I've been having a lot of fun with my glossary-style annotations, but
> > nothing is ready yet to publish, I just have a custom solution which works
> > with our cvsweb program. So I'm not presenting at WWW9 or HT00. Too bad.
> > Anybody for a BOTF at either one?
> >
> > Jon
> > Jon Garfunkel ...............................
> > Software Engineer .................................
> > GTE Internetworking /Powered By BBN/ ......
> > Burlington, Mass ...........
> >
> >   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >    * Previous message: Laurent Denoue: "new annotation software"
> >    * In reply to: Laurent Denoue: "new annotation software"
> >    * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
> >    * Other mail archives: [this mailing list] [other W3C mailing lists]
> >    * Mail actions: [ respond to this message ] [ mail a new topic ]

--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Julie Gibson                       E-mail: julieg@weborganic.com
Weborganic Pty. Ltd.                 http://www.weborganic.com
"Web sites that grow by themselves"
PO Box 131, Annandale NSW 2038, Australia.
Phone 0412 699 674
Received on Wednesday, 10 May 2000 10:50:36 GMT

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