[AAPI] Minutes UAI TF Meeting, Tuesday 6 Sept 2016

URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/09/06-aapi-minutes.html

Plain text follows:

   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

   Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group Teleconference

06 Sep 2016

   See also: [2]IRC log

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2016/09/06-aapi-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Joseph_Scheuhammer, Joanmarie_Diggs, Bryan_Garaventa,
          Richard_Schwerdtfeger

   Regrets
   Chair
          Joseph_Scheuhammer

   Scribe
          joanie

Contents

     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]ACTION-2102: (Rich, All) Create mappings based on
            features in html 5.1 spec.
         2. [5]Github issue-428 (Cynthia/Joseph): clean up UIA
            mapping of aria-haspopup
         3. [6]ISSUE-1026 (All) Mappings for aria-errormessage
         4. [7]ISSUE-676/ACTION-2083: (Joanie, Joseph) Review
            ATK/AT-SPI states for aria states and properties
         5. [8]ISSUE-663: (Rich) Presentational children of some
            widgets have doclick actions if make presentational
            who handles the click
         6. [9]ISSUE-706/ACTION-980 (Cynthia, All) Describe/define
            aria related states managed by the user agent
     * [10]Summary of Action Items
     * [11]Summary of Resolutions
     __________________________________________________________

   <clown> agenda: this

   <scribe> scribe: joanie

ACTION-2102: (Rich, All) Create mappings based on features in html
5.1 spec.

   RS: What I'd like to do is pull in what we have and keep
   working on it.

   <clown>
   [12]https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/action2102/core-aam/core-aam.ht
   ml

     [12] https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/action2102/core-aam/core-aam.html

   RS: Figure was one... It's a cat herding exercise.

   <clown>
   [13]https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/action2102/core-aam/core-aam.ht
   ml#role-map-figure

     [13]
https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/action2102/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-figure

   JS: URL to your branch is above.

   RS: I put this in here, but what I'm trying to do is get an
   answer from them about the mappings.

   JS: Who is "them"? Everybody?

   RS: Yes.
   ... The big problem is relations.
   ... For UIA, Cynthia was away.
   ... I've not yet talked to James Craig.
   ... And then with Form, I thought we were all set.
   ... But then there was discussion regarding deprecation of the
   role.
   ... I was talking to Alex Surkov, but then he went away
   unexpectedly (to me).
   ... On details, and also errormessage, what we did manage to
   get is two separate relationships.

   <clown>
   [14]https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/action2102/core-aam/core-aam.ht
   ml#ariaDetails

     [14]
https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/action2102/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaDetails

   RS: Surkov gave us these relationships.
   ... But Jamie wants to concatenate strings.
   ... That's problematic and many people have issues/concerns.
   ... And then Jamie went away.
   ... I asked Matt to respond with his concerns on the list,
   which he did.
   ... And I've not heard another word from anyone on this matter.

   JS: So what you've got is a relation error message.

   RS: Another thing is we don't have consensus on is reverse
   relations.
   ... Joanie would like this.
   ... But Jamie/Alex indicate it's expensive.
   ... Sure, but then the AT cannot get back unless they cache it.
   ... IA2's IDL hasn't been updated in two years.
   ... I would pull this in, leave the action item open.
   ... Because people keep saying "but I don't see such-and-such
   in the draft.
   ... So merging it in will solve that.

   JS: If I run into a problem, e.g. with merge conflicts, I'll
   give it back to you.
   ... Otherwise, I'll do it before next Tuesday.

   RS: What if I make changes?

   JS: Then I'll have the latest and will merge it in.
   ... So we should coordinate.
   ... I'll tell you when I'm about to merge so you can stop
   making changes.
   ... I'll aim for tomorrow.
   ... Any questions about action-2102?

Github issue-428 (Cynthia/Joseph): clean up UIA mapping of
aria-haspopup

   <clown> [15]https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/428

     [15] https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/428

   JS: Cynthia filed this on github, rather than tracker.
   ... (URL above)
   ... (Reads from github issue)
   ... I'm not sure if she wants this information duplicated for
   each type.

   RS: So you can have expand/collapse for a region.

   <clown>
   [16]https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/action2102/core-aam/core-aam.ht
   ml#ariaHaspopupTrue

     [16]
https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/action2102/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaHaspopupTrue

   JS: This is just for aria-haspopup.
   ... There's true, false, dialog, listbox, ... a bunch.
   ... I assume you don't put expanded on false.
   ... But I guess for the others, like dialog, it's expandable.
   ... I'll respond on the issue now.

   RS: The only way you can do it is to put aria-haspop="false" on
   it.

   <clown> [17]https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/428

     [17] https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/428

   JS: If you refresh the issue (URL above), you'll see my
   response.

ISSUE-1026 (All) Mappings for aria-errormessage

   JS: We've already discussed that as part of 2102.

   RS: Yes, I lumped them altogether.

   JS: I should link these issues to one another.
   ... They're now linked.

   RS: Figure is in there, so is feed.

ISSUE-676/ACTION-2083: (Joanie, Joseph) Review ATK/AT-SPI states for
aria states and properties

   <clown> action-2083

   <trackbot> action-2083 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Review and update
   ATK/AT-SPI2 states in Core AAM -- due 2016-06-21 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [18]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2083

     [18] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2083

   JS: I think I did this.

   JD: It says it's assigned back to me, but I thought we
   discussed this and I had nothing more to do.

   <clown>
   [19]https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/action2102/core-aam/core-aam.ht
   ml#ariaReadonlyTrue

     [19]
https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/action2102/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaReadonlyTrue

   <clown>
   [20]https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#a
   riaReadonlyTrue

     [20]
https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaReadonlyTrue

   JS: If you go to the master branch URL above, ATK/AT-SPI now
   says (Joseph reads).

   JD: Looks good to me.

   JS: So I think we can close this.

   JD: I have something to mention, but maybe it's a different
   issue/action.

   JS: OK, let me close the action.

   <clown> [21]https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/676

     [21] https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/676

   JD: I had forgotten that there is a one-way AtkRelation type
   for POPUP_FOR.

   JS: Does anyone actually use it?

   JD: Gtk+ does.
   ... So I would guess Surkov won't be jazzed about this, but it
   would be nice to add this to the Core AAM.
   ... And if he flat out rejects it, we can always remove it.
   ... Thoughts?

   JS: Fine with me. Is there an IA2 version?

   JD: I don't know.

   JS: Turns out there is.
   ... Want to create an action?

   joseph to add RELATION_POPUP_FOR for ATK/AT-SPI2 for the
   element referenced by aria-haspopup.

   action joseph to add RELATION_POPUP_FOR for ATK/AT-SPI2 for the
   element referenced by aria-haspopup.

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2114 - Add relation_popup_for for
   atk/at-spi2 for the element referenced by aria-haspopup. [on
   Joseph Scheuhammer - due 2016-09-13].

   JS: My question is what table entry does this go into?

   JD: I don't know.
   ... I'm guessing you should add text to the tables with
   aria-haspopup, for all but false.
   ... Although that's a lot of duplication and not especially
   elegant, but I have no better suggestions at this time.

   JS: And this is like Cynthia's expand/collapse control pattern
   mapping.
   ... I guess she wants me to add something about aria-expanded
   not specified.
   ... If the author hasn't added aria-expanded, that's a bad
   thing.
   ... And in UIA, if it's missing it defaults to collapsed.

   <clown> action-2114?

   <trackbot> action-2114 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Add
   relation_popup_for for atk/at-spi2 for the element referenced
   by aria-haspopup. -- due 2016-09-13 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [22]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2114

     [22] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2114

ISSUE-663: (Rich) Presentational children of some widgets have
doclick actions if make presentational who handles the click

   JS: I think we dealt with this, but it was still open.

   <clown> issue-663

   <trackbot> issue-663 -- Presentational children of some widgets
   have doclick actions if make presentational who handles the
   click -- open

   <trackbot> [23]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/663

     [23] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/663

   JS: Rich, I wanted to double-check with you: Is this done?
   ... You (Rich) raised this a long time ago.

   RS: Well, if you have a presentational child with a doclick,
   then it's no longer presentational.

   JS: The spec references presentational conflict resolution.

   <clown>
   [24]https://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#conflict_resoluti
   on_presentation_none

     [24]
https://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#conflict_resolution_presentation_none

   JS: The link above is for that section.
   ... (Reads from the spec)

   RS: Yes, it's been addressed in this section. It's no longer
   presentational.

   JS: So we can close this issue?

   RS: Correct.

   JS: Closed.

ISSUE-706/ACTION-980 (Cynthia, All) Describe/define aria related
states managed by the user agent

   JS: Cynthia is not here.

   <clown> issue-706?

   <trackbot> issue-706 -- Describe/define AAPI managed states --
   open

   <trackbot> [25]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/706

     [25] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/706

   JS: This is that issue about saying something regarding states
   managed by the user agent.

   <clown> action-980?

   <trackbot> action-980 -- Cynthia Shelly to Describe/define
   managed aria related states: aria-setsize, aria-posinset,
   aria-level, focused, focusable with reference to section 5.5
   bullet 1 of the UAIG. -- due 2016-07-19 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [26]http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/980

     [26] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/980

   JS: Cynthia had questions about this.
   ... She has some documention.
   ... Cynthia sent you (Rich) email, I believe it was last week.
   ... And you answered her.

   RS: Yes, there are certain things that the browser does. If
   something is not visible in the window because it's scrolled
   off, the user agent has states to indicate it's offscreen.
   ... Focus is a managed state.
   ... Mozilla, I think, has a whole list of these on their site.

   <clown>
   [27]https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Accessibility/
   AT-APIs/MSAA/States

     [27]
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Accessibility/AT-APIs/MSAA/States

   JS: Cynthia links to the above list.

   RS: Some of these states are managed.

   JD: Busy strikes me as managed, like focus.
   ... I think many of these states can be managed as they are
   set, unset, and have associated signal even without any ARIA.

   JS: This issue has been around for quite some time, and it
   seems to be hard to pin it down.
   ... My suggestion is that we check with Cynthia next week.

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

   [End of minutes]

Received on Tuesday, 6 September 2016 20:09:30 UTC