RE: Summarizing the contentious history of re-opened PFWG-ISSUE-348: Consider renaming (now actually 'deprecating' in ARIA 1.1) role="presentation" to avoid avoid author confusion

Some of other ideas...

Role=text
Role=plaintext
Role=notag
Role=layout (nice for tables, less sure about other tags)
Role=span 

I kind of like role=span.  I think it will be really obvious to html devs what this does.  It will be a little goofy to devs moving from Windows and other native platform APIs to web, but I think the parallel to HTML will be fairly easy to explain to them.  

I'd use something else for decorative images.  
Maybe 
Role=decoration
Role=deco
Or keep presentation for this use, as it's pretty similar and widely deployed.

That could be combined with alt/longdesc/aria-describedby etc. to be read on user request, or with aria-hidden to make it silent.

-----Original Message-----
From: Bryan Garaventa [mailto:bryan.garaventa@whatsock.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 1:22 PM
To: T.V Raman; jongund@illinois.edu
Cc: jason@jasonjgw.net; wai-xtech@w3.org; w3c-wai-pf@w3.org
Subject: Re: Summarizing the contentious history of re-opened PFWG-ISSUE-348: Consider renaming (now actually 'deprecating' in ARIA 1.1) role="presentation" to avoid avoid author confusion

I'm having trouble understanding how role="inline" would convey to a developer that the role would remove the tag from the accessibility tree without hiding or removing any child content. Especially since the role would be applicable to all elements.

The word 'inline' to me, or 'block', seems to imply that it turns block level elements into inline elements or the reverse, which would be an incorrect assumption for developers.

Am I missing something?

----- Original Message -----
From: "T.V Raman" <raman@google.com>
To: <jongund@illinois.edu>
Cc: <jason@jasonjgw.net>; <wai-xtech@w3.org>; <w3c-wai-pf@w3.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 8:54 AM
Subject: RE: Summarizing the contentious history of re-opened
PFWG-ISSUE-348: Consider renaming (now actually 'deprecating' in ARIA 1.1) role="presentation" to avoid avoid author confusion


Jon,
Borrowing block/inline from CSS  as role values is a good idea; an even better idea is to just mirror over CSS state into the accessibility side, i.e. make display:inline  create an implicit role="inline"  on the ARIA  side, rather than asking  authors to write both.

Gunderson, Jon R writes:
 > Another idea is to borrow from the CSS concepts of "block" and "inline".
 >
 > Role="block" and role="inline"
 >
 > This would provide some semantics as to where the "text" content is part of something that stands on its own (e.g. block), versus part of something more (e.g. inline).
 >
 > I know Cynthia Shelley and Rich have talked about concatenating text runs, and this would provide some way to give ATs a hint on how to do that and developers already have some idea what block and inline mean from CSS. 
I am not sure how they would interpret "none", just like the confusion over "presentation".
 >
 > Jon
 >
 >
 >
 > -----Original Message-----
 > From: Jason White [mailto:jason@jasonjgw.net]  > Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 6:12 PM  > To: wai-xtech@w3.org; w3c-wai-pf@w3.org WAI-PFWG  > Subject: Re: Summarizing the contentious history of re-opened
PFWG-ISSUE-348: Consider renaming (now actually 'deprecating' in ARIA 1.1) role="presentation" to avoid avoid author confusion  >  > James Craig <jcraig@apple.com> wrote:
 > > Thanks for the feedback Suzanne. Whether or not “none” is the best  > > replacement is irrelevant. The confusion is not around images. It it  > > around the use of role="presentation" on other elements. For example:
 > >
 > > The following marking: <h4 role="presentation">Foo</h4>  > >  > > is effectively the same as: <div>Foo</div>  > >  >  > Perhaps role="generic" would be more descriptive for the uninitiated.
 >
 >
 >

Received on Wednesday, 29 January 2014 00:54:46 UTC