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[aapi] UAI TF Meeting Tue 22 Apr 2014

From: Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs@igalia.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2014 16:04:44 -0400
Message-ID: <5356CB5C.6050408@igalia.com>
To: "wai-xtech@w3.org" <wai-xtech@w3.org>
Link: http://www.w3.org/2014/04/22-aapi-minutes.html

Plain text follows:

   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                               - DRAFT -

           Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
                              22 Apr 2014

   See also: [2]IRC log

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2014/04/22-aapi-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Bryan_Garaventa, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Joanie_Diggs,
          David_Bolter, Cynthia_Shelly

   Regrets
   Chair
          Joseph_Scheuhammer

   Scribe
          joanie

Contents

     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]Future meetings while Joseph is away.
         2. [5]ISSUE/590/ACTION-1422 (All) Update: Label role and
            aria-labelfor.
         3. [6]ISSUE-481/ACTION-1368/ACTION-1369 (Cynthia, David):
            Investigate IE/FF implementation of aria-live region
            events.
         4. [7]ACTION-1408 (Joseph): Email from Jason Kiss re:
            AAPI that describes API differences.
         5. [8]ISSUE-583/ISSUE-653: (Joseph): Update regarding
            status; new wrinkle due to ref-by-selector.
         6. [9]ACTION-1102 (David): Possible to change "SHOULD
            expose" to "expose"?
         7. [10]ISSUE-628 (Cynthia): Forward compatibility for
            states and properties with respect to browsers.
         8. [11]ACTION-1371/ISSUE-618 (Cynthia): Test case for IE
            selection on a single selection container when item
            becomes unselected.
         9. [12]ISSUE-628 (Cynthia): Forward compatibility for
            states and properties with respect to browsers.
        10. [13]ACTION-1371/ISSUE-618 (Cynthia): Test case for IE
            selection on a single selection container when item
            becomes unselected.
     * [14]Summary of Action Items
     __________________________________________________________

   <trackbot> Date: 22 April 2014

   <clown> zakim GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer

   <clown> agenda: this

   <scribe> scribenick: joanie

Future meetings while Joseph is away.

   JS: I'm on vacation next week. So I won't be here. That is the
   29th.
   ... I'm back by the 6th, so I can run a meeting on the 6th.
   ... But on the 13th, I am away again.

   DB: I'm all for meeting every other week so that is ok with me.

   BG: That's ok with me.

   JS: Rich mentioned the other day that we should get more people
   involved.
   ... Including Steve Faulker and Dominic Mazzoni
   ... And likely Rich himself
   ... Because Rich wants to author the SVG user agent
   implementation guide

   DB: Why did he want to use this meeting for that?

   JS: Because this is the UAIG meeting, and all those authoring
   implementation guides should be at this meeting.
   ... Notes that this is just what he's been hearing.
   ... The conclusion is that we don't meet next week, we meet the
   week after that.

   DB: There are two meetings cancelled, right?

   JS: Right
   ... I will send out a "no meeting next week" note.
   ... May 13th is also a no-meeting day.

ISSUE/590/ACTION-1422 (All) Update: Label role and aria-labelfor.

   <clown> issue-590?

   <trackbot> issue-590 -- add caption role -- open

   <trackbot> [15]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/590

     [15] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/590

   JS: This is just a bit of an update. Rich is back so we
   reconsidered this proposal.
   ... Generally, people agree that there should still be a label
   role.
   ... Though Rich at one point suggested role text.
   ... But there was a lot of discussion about label-for.
   ... The discussion has been tabled until Cynthia has returned.

   CS: I would like to see if we can ask a broader group of actual
   web devs.
   ... I can ask internally, but maybe we could ask elsewhere.
   ... Labelled by has always seemed backwards to me, but maybe
   that's because I started with HTML.
   ... But (regarding Jon's comments to the list), I see that as a
   feature.
   ... You don't want them to be in the DOM next to each other,
   because they might not be.

   <clown> <div role="label" aria-labelfor="foo" > <input
   type="checkbox" id="foo">

   DB: The neat thing about labelled-by is you can have a series
   of IDs.

   JS: It basically mimics the label element.

   CS: I'm not married to this, but I would like to see broader
   feedback.

ISSUE-481/ACTION-1368/ACTION-1369 (Cynthia, David): Investigate IE/FF
implementation of aria-live region events.

   <clown> issue-481?

   <trackbot> issue-481 -- aria-live removal events should or must
   happen before object removal -- open

   <trackbot> [16]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/481

     [16] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/481

   JS: These items are overdue.

   CS: Give me another week.

   DB: Two weeks is fantastic.

   <davidb> lol

   JS: (updates due dates)

ACTION-1408 (Joseph): Email from Jason Kiss re: AAPI that describes
API differences.

   <clown> action-1408?

   <trackbot> action-1408 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Send email to
   jason kiss to ask him if he could write an aapi section that
   describes api differences. -- due 2014-04-08 -- OPEN

   <trackbot>
   [17]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1408

     [17] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1408

   JS: I emailed Jason Kiss about having a section in the UAIG
   documenting differences

   <clown>
   [18]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2014Apr/0002.
   html

     [18] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2014Apr/0002.html

   JS: There's a link to the email I sent to him.
   ... (reads from email)

   <clown>
   [19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2014Apr/0008.
   html

     [19] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2014Apr/0008.html

   JS: The above is the link to Jason's response.
   ... (reads from Jason's email)
   ... I haven't replied yet.
   ... I'm still not sure what really goes in there.

   CS: That seems totally reasonable.

   JS: We also have mapping tables. If you look in the columns, it
   identifies the mappings and illustrates the differences.

   CS: I thought this was supposed to be higher level, but I could
   be wrong.

   JS: I might not be able to do this before I leave.
   ... I'll update the due date since it's not resolved.

   CS: I thought the kinds of things that would be in there would
   be things like ATK and IA2 have relationships, UAI have
   patterns, etc.

ISSUE-583/ISSUE-653: (Joseph): Update regarding status; new wrinkle
due to ref-by-selector.

   <clown> issue-583?

   <trackbot> issue-583 -- Elements that are descendants of an
   element having aria-activedescendant should not all be
   focusable -- open

   <trackbot> [20]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/583

     [20] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/583

   JS: The original issue was if you were using
   aria-activedescendant on a container, you don't want all the
   descendants focusable.
   ... Just the ones that could be active, so you need some
   criteria determining which items are focusable.
   ... Currently this is that they have to have both ID and role.
   ... If they don't have both, they cannot be an active
   descendant.

   DB: Computed role are ARIA role?

   <clown>
   [21]http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation-1.1/#keyboard-
   focus_aria-activedescendant

     [21]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation-1.1/#keyboard-focus_aria-activedescendant

   JS: Looks it up and provides the above link, then reads the
   content.
   ... That sounds to me like it has a computed role.

   DB: Inputs, things with tab index

   <clown> issue-653?

   <trackbot> issue-653 -- Need to support selectors in ARIA
   relationships -- open

   <trackbot> [22]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/653

     [22] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/653

   JS: There's this problem with the shadow DOM.
   ... The ID ref may cross the shadow DOM border.
   ... It has been requested that we allow things without IDs to
   go across the shadow DOM border.
   ... So I'm pointing out that this issue might intersect with
   ARIA active descendant.

   DB: I think I need to re-read the email thread to get my head
   back into the context.

   JS: I just wanted to keep everyone in the loop and thinking
   about this.

   <davidb> yeah I need to go back to an email thread with Dominic
   to see where we ended up

   JS: The CSS working group is the one defining the new selector
   types.
   ... This might raise security issues too.
   ... This whole thing is in a state of flux.
   ... Is this really a 1.1 issue?
   ... I think we concluded that we'd put in the spec, but mark it
   as at-risk because we might not have any implementations.

   CS: The difference between 1.0 and 1.1 should be pretty small.
   ... If not, we should probably cut some features.

   JS: Would it make sense to move this email discussion to the
   public list?

ACTION-1102 (David): Possible to change "SHOULD expose" to "expose"?

   <clown> ACTION-1102?

   <trackbot> ACTION-1102 -- David Bolter to [ARIA 1.1] Get
   someone to look at the SHOULD statements in the Role Mapping
   table. Can these be changed from "SHOULD be exposed" to "expose
   as" -- due 2014-04-01 -- OPEN

   <trackbot>
   [23]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1102

     [23] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1102

   DB: I think some of these shoulds do not currently pass, like
   on the toggle button.
   ... (reads from mapping table)
   ... This at least recently didn't work for dynamic changes to
   aria-pressed
   ... (looks for bug)

   JS: There are not a lot of SHOULDs

   DB: I think for the role mapping table, for IA2 and ATK we can
   switch to "exposed as"

   <davidb> (that bug was fixed BTW)

   (General discussion of ATK)

   JS: Alert and alert dialog, leave as SHOULD.
   ... For button / aria-pressed, replace SHOULD with "expose as"
   ... The previous one was for IA2 and ATK
   ... For listbox, child of combobox, replace SHOULD with "expose
   as" just for ATK
   ... For option, child of listbox that is exposed as menu,
   replace SHOULD with "expose as" just for ATK

   DB: Should the language be harmonized (mapped to vs expose as)?

   JS: I don't see any SHOULDs for the Mac except for the alert
   and alert dialog.
   ... This becomes my job; it's no longer David's. Due date 20
   May.
   ... Because we've moved all the source to github and are using
   respec, we're going to try to have a heartbeat release at the
   end of May.

ISSUE-628 (Cynthia): Forward compatibility for states and properties
with respect to browsers.

   <clown> issue-628?

   <trackbot> issue-628 -- Work with browser vendors to come up
   with convention for forward compatibility of ARIA states and
   properties -- raised

   <trackbot> [24]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/628

     [24] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/628

   CS: This may be overcome by events in the real world

   :)

ACTION-1371/ISSUE-618 (Cynthia): Test case for IE selection on a
single selection container when item becomes unselected.

ISSUE-628 (Cynthia): Forward compatibility for states and properties
with respect to browsers.

   <clown> resolution: close issue-628 as being overcome by events
   - ARIA 1.0 is recommendation this is not do-able.

   <clown> RESOLVED: close issue-628 as being overcome by events -
   ARIA 1.0 is recommendation this is not do-able

ACTION-1371/ISSUE-618 (Cynthia): Test case for IE selection on a
single selection container when item becomes unselected.

   <clown> close ISSUE-628

   <trackbot> Closed ISSUE-628.

   <clown> action-1371?

   <trackbot> action-1371 -- Cynthia Shelly to Investigate what ie
   does for single selection container when item becomes
   unselected, and create a test case (issue-618). -- due
   2014-04-08 -- OPEN

   <trackbot>
   [25]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1371

     [25] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1371

   <clown> issue-618?

   <trackbot> issue-618 -- MSAA selection event mapping for single
   selection case when item becomes unselected -- open

   <trackbot> [26]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/618

     [26] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/618

   CS: I started this but haven't gotten back to it yet.

Summary of Action Items

   [End of minutes]
     __________________________________________________________


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