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Re: ACTION-1039: aria-hidden and inner/outer elements

From: James Craig <jcraig@apple.com>
Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 11:29:43 -0700
Cc: Cynthia Shelly <cyns@microsoft.com>, David Bolter <dbolter@mozilla.com>, W3C WAI-XTECH <wai-xtech@w3.org>, James Nurthen <james.nurthen@oracle.com>, Stefan Schnabel <stefan.schnabel@sap.com>
Message-id: <D306A0AB-8AEF-4B97-B96E-9C8A189C0B3B@apple.com>
To: Andi Snow-Weaver <andisnow@us.ibm.com>
(Copying James Nurthen at Oracle and Stefan Schnabel at SAP.) 

I wouldn't consider this an author error. You may have one portion of the script toggling the hidden state of the leaf node element (like more details after a disclosure widget), but another portion of the script toggles the hidden state of the ancestor node container, like a tabpanel. For example:

Hidden TabPanel (aria-hidden=true) perhaps a different tab is selected
	- Paragraph
	- Disclosure
	-	- Shown Details (aria-hidden=false)

Neither of these is mutually exclusive, but neither is this an error. The "Shown Details" element just remains shown so that it will appear when its ancestor element is no longer hidden. By calling this an author error, you'd be forcing the author to break the object-oriented nature of nested controls. Companies that develop big flexible, general purpose web applications (like Oracle and SAP) tend to nest controls from time-to-time. ;-)


On May 16, 2012, at 6:56 AM, Andi Snow-Weaver wrote:

> I talked to Rich. He actually doesn't agree with what he wrote on this initially - that the inner content with aria-hidden="false" should be exposed in the accessibility tree. 
> 
> The net is that this is an author error and the UA is not responsible for correcting author errors. While we obviously don't list all author errors in the UAIG, we do list some. So my recommendation is that we add this scenario to the list of author errors in section 6.2 of the UAIG.
> 
> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#document-handling_author-errors
> 
> Any objection?
> 
> Andi
> 
>> 
>> On May 15, 2012, at 8:55 AM, Andi Snow-Weaver <andisnow@us.ibm.com> wrote:
>>> Can you please take a look at action-1039? The one question for us (item 2) is about aria-hidden="true" on an outer element that has an inner element with aria-hidden="false". Rich is asking for a clarification in the UAIG that the inner element should still be exposed in the accessibility tree. Do you agree with what he is proposing?
>>> 
>>> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1039
>> 
>> I don't agree that the element should be exposed. If the ancestor is hidden, all descendants should also be hidden. If the same way, if you have CSS display:none on a node, adding display:block to a child element does not make it appear.
>> 
>> Another technical challenge regarding the AX tree would be that you'd have to promote these child nodes to a higher branch, since the parent element is no longer in the tree. This could result in very unexpected behavior in some APIs.
>> 
>> James
>> 
>> 
> 
Received on Wednesday, 16 May 2012 18:30:12 GMT

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