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Re: [css3-ui] scoping 'nav-index' (or tabindex) for large document use cases

From: James Nurthen <james.nurthen@oracle.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 08:32:02 -0800
Message-ID: <4ED3B782.1010804@oracle.com>
To: Sailesh Panchang <sailesh.panchang@deque.com>
CC: Ojan Vafai <ojan@chromium.org>, "L. David Baron" <dbaron@dbaron.org>, www-style@w3.org, wai-xtech@w3.org
Some new CSS3 layout regions cause content to be reordered. In order to 
support keyboard navigation of this content it may be necessary to 
define nav-index in CSS as well.
Regards,
James

On 11/26/2011 4:09 PM, Sailesh Panchang wrote:
> It is not clear why the same functionality is being proposed via
> tabindex and CSS nav-index.
> I even wonder if CSS should do this. After all, tab order relates to
> document structure, meaningful reading / nav order and is concerned
> with semantics. Hence it should be addressed by HTML and its
> attributes not by CSS which, broadly speaking, addresses doc
> presentation / appearance aspects.
> And it will be very  confusing for developers as well as
> QA/accessibility evaluation tools if similar features can be
> implemented by tabindex in HTML and  nav-index in CSS.
> Sailesh Panchang
> www.deque.com
>
> On 11/20/11, Ojan Vafai<ojan@chromium.org>  wrote:
>> FWIW, there's a proposal to extend tabindex with tabindexscope to address
>> the same problem:
>> http://lists.whatwg.org/htdig.cgi/whatwg-whatwg.org/2011-November/033775.html.
>> I agree that if we're going to add nav-index, we should also address the
>> scoping problem.
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 3:22 PM, L. David Baron<dbaron@dbaron.org>  wrote:
>>
>>> One of the issues that came up in the joint meeting between CSS and
>>> WAI Protocols&  Formats at TPAC (on October 31) was the 'nav-index'
>>> property in http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-ui/#nav-index .  (This is
>>> the second of two messages (on different topics) to follow up on that
>>> discussion.)
>>>
>>> There was a brief discussion that both 'nav-index' and tabindex are
>>> difficult for authors to use on large pages.  This was because of
>>> the impression that one of the use cases is likely to be doing a
>>> small amount of reordering of the tabbing order.  In particular, I
>>> think the following two use cases may have been brought up:
>>>
>>>   (1) The author wants to say that the tabbing order (sequential
>>>   navigation order) should be assigned a certain way for large
>>>   sections of the page, each of which contain many navigable items.
>>>   For example, consider two div elements, each with a large number
>>>   of links in it, where the author wants all of the elements in the
>>>   second div to appear in the tabbing order before all of the
>>>   elements in the first div.  This currently requires assigning
>>>   tabindex, at a minimum, to all the tab-navigable elements in at
>>>   least one of the divs, if not all the tab-navigable elements in
>>>   the whole document.  It would be easier if there were a way to do
>>>   this by applying styles only to the divs (and perhaps their
>>>   container; see item (2)).
>>>
>>>   (2) The author wants to say that the tabbing order (sequential
>>>   navigation order) should be assigned a certain way for a group of
>>>   elements within a specific container without having to specify the
>>>   order for everything else around them.  Right now, saying that two
>>>   links inside a div should be reached in the order opposite the
>>>   default one, but should appear in-sequence relative to the content
>>>   outside of the div, requires not only specifying 'nav-index' or
>>>   tabindex on the two links, but also on all the other links in the
>>>   document.
>>>
>>> It seems useful to be able to address these use cases by assigning
>>> properties or attributes to only a few elements rather than having
>>> to do so globally.
>>>
>>> (Note the desire for the tabbing order to be the way it is may be
>>> the result of positions assigned in the style sheet, which is why
>>> the tabbing order may belong in the style sheet as well.)
>>>
>>> I don't recall concrete proposals for how to address these issues,
>>> but they seem likely to be worth addressing in css3-ui.
>>>
>>> -David
>>>
>>> --
>>> 𝄞   L. David Baron                         http://dbaron.org/   𝄂
>>> 𝄢   Mozilla                           http://www.mozilla.org/   𝄂
>>>
>>>
Received on Monday, 28 November 2011 16:32:41 GMT

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