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Re: associating a group of related images to a common caption

From: Gregory J. Rosmaita <oedipus@hicom.net>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 20:35:46 +0100
To: Steven Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
Cc: public-html-a11y@w3.org, wai-xtech@w3.org
Message-Id: <20100614192431.M94716@hicom.net>
steve asked:

> why an image specific association "imgref"?
> Why not bring aria-describedby and aria-labelledby directly into 
> HTML, by removing the "aria-" and specifying them in HTML5?

bringing "naked" describedby and labelledby attributes into HTML5 
to indicate relationships or associations between elements directly 
as native semantics would be a solution i personally would heartily 
endorse...  it is akin to my mania for for/id relationships for 
reusable relationship mechanisms such as DFN, ABBR, etc. to establish 
strong explicit bindings, rather than weak implicit bindings...

gregory.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
A conclusion is simply the place where someone got tired of thinking.
                                                      -- Arthur Bloc
---------------------------------------------------------------------
   Gregory J. Rosmaita - oedipus@hicom.net AND gregory@ubats.org
        Camera Obscura: http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/
---------------------------------------------------------------------

---------- Original Message -----------
From: Steven Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
To: "Gregory J. Rosmaita" <oedipus@hicom.net>
Cc: public-html-a11y@w3.org, wai-xtech@w3.org
Sent: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 20:09:03 +0100
Subject: Re: associating a group of related images to a common caption

> Hi Gregory,
> 
> Why not bring aria-describedby and aria-labelledby directly into 
> HTML, by removing the "aria-" and specifying them in HTML5?
> 
> regards
> Stevef
> 
> On 14 June 2010 17:03, Gregory J. Rosmaita <oedipus@hicom.net> wrote:
> > aloha!
> >
> > currently, the HTML5 draft contains the following example:
> >
> > QUOTE
> >
> > <figure>
> > <img src="castle1423.jpeg" title="Etching. Anonymous, ca. 1423."
> > alt="The castle has one tower, and a tall wall around it.">
> >
> > <img src="castle1858.jpeg" title="Oil-based paint on canvas. Maria Towle,
> > 1858."
> > alt="The castle now has two towers and two walls.">
> >
> > <img src="castle1999.jpeg" title="Film photograph. Peter Jankle, 1999."
> > alt="The castle lies in ruins, the original tower all that remains in one
> > piece.">
> >
> > <figcaption>The castle through the ages: 1423, 1858, and 1999,
> > respectively</figcaption>
> > </figure>
> >
> > UNQUOTE
> >
> > when what is needed is:
> >
> > <figure>
> > <figcaption imgref="castle1423 castle1858 castle1999">
> > The castle through the ages: 1423, 1858, and 1999.
> > </figcaption>
> >
> > <img src="castle1423.jpeg" title="Etching. Anonymous, ca. 1423."
> > alt="Engraving of the castle, circa 1423, shows one tower with a tall
> > wall around it.">
> >
> > <img src="castle1858.jpeg" title="Oil-based paint on canvas. Maria Towle,
> > 1858."
> > alt="The castle as it appeared in 1858, with two towers and two walls.">
> >
> > <img src="castle1999.jpeg" title="Film photograph. Peter Jankle, 1999."
> > alt="Photograph from 1999; the castle lies in ruins, only the original
> > tower remains intact.">
> > </figure>
> >
> > note the added attribute "imgref" for FIGCAPTION -- this is intended to
> > provide a strong binding between the individual components of the
> > illustration and the caption which describes the images as a group --
> > this is a space delimited list
> >
> > note that the @imgref attribute is part of the "Structure Guidelines for
> > DAISY/NISO":
> >
> > http://www.daisy.org/z3986/structure/archive-SG-DAISY2005/part2-image.htm
> >
> > note, also that the DAISY structure guidelines also uses an attribute
> > named "prodnote"
> >
> > QUOTE
> > multiple <prodnote>s if different versions are needed for different media
> > (e.g., large print, braille, or print). If several <prodnote>s refer to a
> > single <img> with id="xxx", each prodnote would have the same <prodnote
> > imgref="xxx"> but each <prodnote> would have a different value for the
> > showin attribute to control which media it is displayed in. See
> > Information Object: Producer's Note in Part II(b): Block Elements. If
> > multiple <prodnote>s refer to a group of images, the imgref attribute
> > would include the ids of all images in that group, e.g., <prodnote
> > imgref="id1 id2 id3 ...">.
> > UNQUOTE
> >
> > in this model, the imgref attribute is applicable to both the FIGCAPTION
> > and the PRODNOTE (which can be "viewed" as a block-level longdescription
> > available on user request or in compliance with user-settings (it has a
> > default value of render="optional"); obviously the term "prodnote"
> > connotes something different than LONGDESC, but it is a potential model
> > as to how to get LONGDESC info into the DOM without a fetch from an
> > external resource...
> >
> > how to approach?  should i first file a bug on image grouping that
> > simply states:
> >
> > PROPOSED BUG
> > For the purposes of grouping and labelling individual images in a
> > compound image (that is, a FIGURE containing multiple IMGs with a
> > common FIGCAPTION), it is necessary to introduce a new attribute,
> > "imgref", which can be used to associate individual IMG declarations
> > with a FIGCAPTION, using a space delimited list.
> >
> > <FIGURE>
> > <FIGCAPTION imgref="img1 img2 img3">Caption Text for Figure</FIGCAPTION>
> > <IMG src="img1.png" alt="Alternative text for image 1">
> > <IMG src="img2.png" alt="Alternative text for image 2">
> > <IMG src="img3.png" alt="Alternative text for image 3">
> > </FIGURE>
> >
> > END PROPOSED BUG
> >
> > thoughts?  next steps?  gregory.
> >
> >
> >
> 
> -- 
> with regards
> 
> Steve Faulkner
> Technical Director - TPG Europe
> Director - Web Accessibility Tools Consortium
> 
> www.paciellogroup.com | www.wat-c.org
> Web Accessibility Toolbar -
> http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html
------- End of Original Message -------
Received on Monday, 14 June 2010 19:36:18 GMT

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