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RE: ISSUE 30 @longdesc use cases

From: Emmanuelle Gutiérrez y Restrepo <coordina@sidar.org>
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 21:07:42 +0200
To: "'Katie Haritos-Shea'" <ryladog@earthlink.net>, <sailesh.panchang@deque.com>, "'Ian Hickson'" <ian@hixie.ch>, "'Jonas Sicking'" <jonas@sicking.cc>
Cc: "'Joshue O Connor'" <joshue.oconnor@cfit.ie>, "'HTML Accessibility Task Force'" <public-html-a11y@w3.org>, "'HTML WG'" <public-html@w3.org>, "'W3C WAI-XTECH'" <wai-xtech@w3.org>, "'Barry McMullin'" <barry.mcmullin@dcu.ie>, "'Laura Carlson'" <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>, "'Katie @ GMAIL'" <ryladog@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0c5301cb4488$cc7b1310$65713930$@org>


Emmanuelle Gutiérrez y Restrepo
Directora de la Fundación Sidar
Coordinadora del Seminario SIDAR
email: coordina@sidar.org / emmanuelle@sidar.org

-----Mensaje original-----
De: wai-xtech-request@w3.org [mailto:wai-xtech-request@w3.org] En nombre de Katie Haritos-Shea
Enviado el: miércoles, 25 de agosto de 2010 20:49
Para: sailesh.panchang@deque.com; 'Ian Hickson'; 'Jonas Sicking'
CC: 'Joshue O Connor'; 'HTML Accessibility Task Force'; 'HTML WG'; 'W3C WAI-XTECH'; 'Barry McMullin'; 'Laura Carlson'; Katie @ GMAIL
Asunto: RE: ISSUE 30 @longdesc use cases


I have have also waited a bit to chime in on this issue as all the requirements for 'use cases' sent everyone into a tizzy - but, for the record, my thoughts on this issue precisely mimic Sailesh's words "Why change something that is tried and tested and works for the user group it is intended to serve? Really this is not an issue that requires re-invention. Time and effort will be better spent tackling more challenging issues."

If an Official Objection is required to overturn this decision to remove @longdesc from HTML 5 - please include my name as supporting keeping @longdesc in HTML moving forward, and that includes HTML 5. (Let me know where to go to be involved in the effort, please.)

The discussion about other technologies/specs utilizing, inventing or *possibly soon* creating alternate methods/meachanisms to perform a similar function is welcome and wonderful as additional resources/options for developers - if/when they choose to utilize those technologies/specs in-addition-to or in-place-of HTML. 

This is an important accessibility component of HTML and should remain in the HTML specs. It works for the user group it is intended to serve, it is understood and used, it provides backward and foreward compatability for many channels and devices that utilize HTML.

Katie Haritos-Shea

-----Original Message-----
>From: Sailesh Panchang <sailesh.panchang@deque.com>
>Sent: Aug 24, 2010 4:51 PM
>To: 'Ian Hickson' <ian@hixie.ch>, 'Jonas Sicking' <jonas@sicking.cc>
>Cc: 'Joshue O Connor' <joshue.oconnor@cfit.ie>, 'HTML Accessibility Task Force' <public-html-a11y@w3.org>, 'HTML WG' <public-html@w3.org>, 'W3C WAI-XTECH' <wai-xtech@w3.org>, 'Barry McMullin' <barry.mcmullin@dcu.ie>, 'Laura Carlson' <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>
>Subject: RE: ISSUE 30 @longdesc use cases
>> This is somewhat circular reasoning. You're saying that it's obviously
>> a mistake to link to inside a @hidden subtree because it's disallowed.
>>No, I'm saying it's obviously a mistake to link to irrelevant content, and 
>>that content inside a block marked by a hidden="" attribute is by 
>>definition irrelevant.
>>Then I'm saying it's not allowed, so as to help authors using validators 
>>to catch this mistake.
>This is getting a bit hilarious. 
>I thought there was some objection to longdesc content being available to
>only AT users. But here I see other mechanisms  being invented to allow
>access for AT users to content that is generally hidden. Beats me.
>Maybe these proponents do not realize that an AT user may access longdesc
>content only if he/she chooses to and does not have to access it every time
>tone navigates to the chart / graph. Instead of proposing such retrograde
>measures to banish longdesc, one may do well to urge browser makers to
>improve support for longdesc- an attribute that has been around for over a
>decade. E.g. at user's option make the longdesc content visible.   
>Maybe everyone should re-read the HTML4 specs for longdesc and then revisit
>the argument against 'longdesc'. Then one may see no problems at all on
>second thoughts. By the way, can someone dig out and post the  arguments
>against longdesc?
>You come up with something new and then AT makers and  browser makers need
>to implement it and developers need to learn and understand it and code it
>correctly. This takes a while. And there will be two methods in use: someone
>will use this new convoluted technique and some will use the longdesc
>method. Confusion will be rife and accessibility will suffer.
>By the way, does anyone remember the D-link that was in vogue when longdesc
>was not supported as well as it is now? Content authors often had a problem
>inserting an anchor with "D" as anchor text and users too did not understand
>its purpose. 
>Why is it difficult to understand that longdesc is an attribute designed to
>accommodate the needs of a subset of users. 
>Why change something that is tried and tested and works for the user group
>it is intended to serve? Really this is not an issue that requires
>re-invention. Time and effort will be better spent tackling more challenging
>issues. Else circular reasoning will become the order of the day. 
>Sailesh Panchang
>Accessibility Services Manager (Web and Software)
>Deque Systems Inc. (www.deque.com)
>11130 Sunrise Valley Drive, Suite #140,
>Reston VA 20191
>Phone: 703-225-0380 (ext 105)
>E-mail: sailesh.panchang@deque.com

* katie *

Katie Haritos-Shea 
Section 508 Technical Policy Analyst


People may forget exactly what it was that you said or did, 
but they will never forget how you made them feel.......
Received on Wednesday, 25 August 2010 19:08:29 UTC

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