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Re: Musings on ARIA role="application" blog post by Terrill Thompson

From: David Poehlman <david.poehlman@handsontechnologeyes.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 05:51:11 -0500
Cc: Steven Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>, W3C WAI-XTECH <wai-xtech@w3.org>, "Keim, Oliver" <oliver.keim@sap.com>
Message-Id: <BF9CF5AC-E842-4303-8547-F7277CFA4ABF@handsontechnologeyes.com>
To: "Schnabel, Stefan" <stefan.schnabel@sap.com>
I'm not sure what you are intending to convey.  The step backward if there is any here is that jaws require virtual mode at all.

On Nov 30, 2009, at 2:29 AM, Schnabel, Stefan wrote:

1. Jaws virtual mode is *NOT* the default mode when it comes to role=application. There the default mode is intended to be *Application* Mode, believe it or not. And when you're not used to that and consider that a step backward, well, that's debatable.

2. You are right with your update argument. I think Freedom should provide that mode switch also in a fix pack for Jaws 10 for customers.

-----Original Message-----
From: David Poehlman [mailto:david.poehlman@handsontechnologeyes.com] 
Sent: Freitag, 27. November 2009 14:55
To: Schnabel, Stefan
Cc: Steven Faulkner; W3C WAI-XTECH; Keim, Oliver
Subject: Re: Musings on ARIA role="application" blog post by Terrill Thompson

Not sure what is meant here by JAWS users users using virtual mode as last resort but it is the default mode so many will use it automatically.  It's fine to say that folk need to update but I just spent $260 doing that for the little bit of work I do in JAWS and it didn't gain me much.

On Nov 27, 2009, at 6:36 AM, Schnabel, Stefan wrote:


This is the reason why you can easily override the "forced mode switch" caused by role=application with new Jaws Navmode switches in Jaws 11.

The users who complain just have to have this update.

But this is a workaround, not the real thing. Blind Jaws users are also used to use Virtual mode as a last resort, because generally the web authors don't care about keyboard navigation.

The article presumes that web authors who have to implement keyboard navigation will either be lazy (supply none), non-standard (because there is none, only http://dev.aol.com/dhtml_style_guide which is still not "W3C official") or erroneous (everybody may miss something), and if so, Jaws Virtual Mode is the savior.

But honestly, what the world needs is 

a) A standardized Specification how to do Keyboard Navigation for/in Web Widgets authorized by W3C

b) An explicit checkpoint in WCAG 2.0+ to obey this specification

c) An Keyboard Navigation Consistency Checker for web authors

Too much in web accessibility (especially keyboard support) is still based on the goodwill of the authors.

The article also deals with something I call "the usability of accessibility and the expectation interest of users".

Jaws users are USED to a certain navigation paradigm, and if navigation by HEADING is NOT working in the application mode then either this needs to be supported in this mode or (as in Jaws 11) was worked around by having that dynamic mode switch.

I know also votings from the blind community that there should be as much as possible feature-equivalence between the two modes. Jaws has not implemented this so far, reasons unknown. But if so, it will make future musings obsolete and will just enhance the product.


From: wai-xtech-request@w3.org [mailto:wai-xtech-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Steven Faulkner
Sent: Freitag, 27. November 2009 10:29
Subject: Musings on ARIA role="application" blog post by Terrill Thompson

Musings on ARIA role="application"  blog post by Terrill Thompson

there should be discussion on the issues raised in this post. 
with regards

Steve Faulkner
Technical Director - TPG Europe
Director - Web Accessibility Tools Consortium

www.paciellogroup.com | www.wat-c.org
Web Accessibility Toolbar - http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html
Received on Monday, 30 November 2009 10:51:46 UTC

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