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Re: ARIA roles added to the a element should be conforming in HTML5.

From: Lars Gunther <gunther@keryx.se>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:23:36 +0100
Message-ID: <4AF92308.5040101@keryx.se>
To: public-html-request@w3.org
CC: 'W3C WAI-XTECH' <wai-xtech@w3.org>, 'HTMLWG WG' <public-html@w3.org>
2009-11-09 21:21, John Foliot skrev:
> You likely will not get any argument here, but what happens when an author
> *DOES*  create sloppy code? We can 'forbid' it all we want, but unless the
> browsers refuse to render what the author has created (they won't), then
> forbidding alone is not the answer. Moreover, despite pleading, discussion
> and argument, if the author cannot or will not change their code, then
> what?

If an author cares enough to validate his or her code, my estimation is 
that he or she also cares enough to fix the markup. After all, that is 
what you'll do with any non ARIA-related validation error.

As has been pointed out, a validator can not fix everything. It's a tool 
for authors to use, but it requires knowledge. E.g. a big public Swedish 
site (hat tip Peter Krantz) has hundreds of these:

<img src="spacer.gif" alt="typographic air">

Perfectly valid, totally wrecking accessibility.

Anyway, I appreciate Steven's and your drive to see ARIA adopted. But 
the main issue must be that a validator checks for valid code. In the 
long run nothing serves accessibility more than clean, semantic markup.

As for discussed use cases:

1. To style a link as a button, having JavaScript turned off, is bad 
practice. If the validator catches such bad practice, all the better.

2. If the validator in the future can be used to validate the DOM as 
well as well as the original markup (an idea I support, BTW) we have two 
options:

a. The author may be knowledgeable enough to disregard any reports about 
a and @role="button" mismatches.

b. Such disregarding can be done automatically, perhaps with a script or 
a toggle.

Let's consider for a while what we lose if we allow <a role="button">:

* Student's will miss out on a learning opportunity. The quicker you get 
their minds on the right path, the better, in my experience.

* People that do care and want to do the right thing and that would 
indeed fix their markup, might miss this opportunity, since the mismatch 
is not pointed out to them.

The more knowledgable authors there are in the world, the more we will 
have good role models, good blog posts, good books, good advice on 
discussion forums and mailing lists. Thus what is best for education 
will be best for accessibility in the long run.


-- 
Lars Gunther
http://keryx.se/
http://twitter.com/itpastorn/
http://itpastorn.blogspot.com/
Received on Tuesday, 10 November 2009 08:24:33 GMT

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