W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > wai-xtech@w3.org > March 2008

RE:Closing a tab

From: Cain, Sally <sally.cain@rnib.org.uk>
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 19:00:01 -0000
Message-ID: <F97D739047BF10458C2A6E71D8E5100B1A41FA@brmmsx02.ads.rnib.org.uk>
To: <wai-xtech@w3.org>

Hi,

I would certainly support the close icon being in the tab order along with a supported hotkey. This is in my experience most useful to the user. If you don't know the hotkey you can't get to it in the tab order and you don't know it is there. Once you have identified the hotkey you may well then use this. I also support the statement around cognitive load for hotkeys and this is where a user may or may not chose to use the hotkey.

As for whether keyboard usage should be announced by the element information, this is recommended practice within software applications and as ARIA will be used to mimic desktop apps it might be useful to continue that user expectation. 

Thanks

Sally

Sally Cain

Digital Accessibility Development Officer

RNIB UK

-----Original Message-----

From: wai-xtech-request@w3.org [mailto:wai-xtech-request@w3.org <mailto:wai-xtech-request@w3.org> ] On Behalf Of Schnabel, Stefan

Sent: 03 March 2008 14:01

To: Al Gilman

Cc: Wlodkowski, Thomas; Jon Gunderson; Becky Gibson; wai-xtech@w3.org

Subject: RE: closing a Tab?

 

Exactly. But it is not well defined yet out there in the web 

if keyboard usage should be announced as part of the element info in tooltip 

a) always for all keys (I think this is not necessary)

b) for some keys only (the case I mentioned for tabstrip) and rest navigation be covered by FAQ or Best Practices

c) also for hotkeys if shortcuts are available in title of images in toolbar (e.g. CTRL+ALT+P for print)

In addition, should this help be

a) always present

b) on user request, configurable by user (personalization)

c) keys overridable by users if they enter problems on their browsers

Last ones b) c) are maybe something for the XHTML2 working group's personalization concept also ...

- Stefan

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Al Gilman [mailto:Alfred.S.Gilman@IEEE.org <mailto:Alfred.S.Gilman@IEEE.org> ] 

Sent: Montag, 3. März 2008 14:36

To: Schnabel, Stefan

Cc: Wlodkowski, Thomas; Jon Gunderson; Becky Gibson; wai-xtech@w3.org

Subject: Re: closing a Tab?

 

On 3 Mar 2008, at 3:58 AM, Schnabel, Stefan wrote:

>

> Tom,

>

> That's why we're doing Best Practices, don't we?

>

> Think of FireFox. Having 10 Tabs open and arrow keying with additional

> focusing of the closing cross icon will result in a keyhitcount of 

> 18 to

> navigate the tabs instead of 9.

>

> And don't tell me Firefox isn't a good example :) (just kidding)

>

> So currently we solve the issue for Tabs in our Web Dynpro frameworks

> with memorizing special keys in the tab tooltip in cases where it does

> make sense.

s/memorizing/explaining

The tooltip explains the special keys to users not familiar with them 

yet.

Is that right, Stefan?

> - Stefan

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Wlodkowski, Thomas [mailto:Thomas.Wlodkowski@corp.aol.com <mailto:Thomas.Wlodkowski@corp.aol.com> ]

> Sent: Freitag, 29. Februar 2008 18:25

> To: Schnabel, Stefan; Jon Gunderson; Becky Gibson; wai-xtech@w3.org

> Subject: RE: closing a Tab?

>

> I also think the icon attached to the tab or in the tab order may also

> be helpful. We need to consider cognitive load when talking about

> keyboard shortcuts. Too many web and software apps to track/memorize.

>

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: wai-xtech-request@w3.org [mailto:wai-xtech-request@w3.org <mailto:wai-xtech-request@w3.org> ] On

> Behalf Of Schnabel, Stefan

> Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 11:54 AM

> To: Jon Gunderson; Becky Gibson; wai-xtech@w3.org

> Subject: RE: closing a Tab?

>

>

> Jon,

>

> better to have a standardized hotkey for closing tab. As a concept we

> tend to keep tab chains short.

>

> Regards

> Stefan

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: wai-xtech-request@w3.org [mailto:wai-xtech-request@w3.org <mailto:wai-xtech-request@w3.org> ] On

> Behalf Of Jon Gunderson

> Sent: Freitag, 29. Februar 2008 17:32

> To: Becky Gibson; wai-xtech@w3.org

> Subject: Re: closing a Tab?

>

>

> Why can't the close icon be in tab order and the icon can also be part

> of the label for the tab.

>

> Jon

>

>

> ---- Original message ----

>> Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 15:35:21 -0500

>> From: "Becky Gibson" <Becky_Gibson@notesdev.ibm.com>

>> Subject: Re: closing a Tab?

>> To: wai-xtech@w3.org

>>

>>

>> I implemented a context menu for closable tabs in the dojo tab

> container.

>> See the second tab panel example on [1]. The tabs with title "first"

> and

>> "third" are closable. Pressing shift-F10 with focus on these tabs 

>> will

>> bring up a context menu with "close". If a tab is closable, pressing

> the

>> delete key with focus on the title will delete the tab. I thought 

>> this

> is

>> what the style guide group had decided upon? Although it would be 

>> nice

> if

>> there was a way to indicate to the screen reader user that a tab (or

> any

>> other item) was deletable without having the use the shift-F10

> discovery

>> mechanism.

>>

>> I based my implementation decision on the DHTML Style Guide June 29,

> 2007

>> meeting minutes [2]:

>> TW: options other than DELETE - CTRL+F4 a possibility, have

>> to get comments on that - what we are saying is context menu and

> keyboard

>> shortcut combo fine - great if had property so didn't have to use

> context

>> menu, but maybe that's phase 2

>> So perhaps we made a decision but just didn't record it in the style

>> guide?

>> [1]

>> http://archive.dojotoolkit.org/nightly/dojotoolkit/dijit/tests/ <http://archive.dojotoolkit.org/nightly/dojotoolkit/dijit/tests/>  

>> layout/t

> est_TabContainer.html

>> [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2007Jun/0130.html <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2007Jun/0130.html> 

>>

>> Becky Gibson

>> Web Accessibility Architect

>>

>> IBM Emerging Internet Technologies

>> 5 Technology Park Drive

>> Westford, MA 01886

>> Voice: 978 399-6101; t/l 333-6101

>> Email: gibsonb@us.ibm.com

>> blog: WebA11y

>>

>>

>> wai-xtech-request@w3.org wrote on 02/28/2008 03:06:06 PM:

>>

>>>

>>>

>>> In the Best Practices we have a dangling question:

>>>

>>> <quote

>>> cite="http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-practices/#TabPanel">

>>>

>>> Unresolved at time of port from DHTML wiki: How to indicate that a

>>> tab panel can be deleted? Visually a close icon can be provided in

>>> the upper right hand corner of the tab which the user can click 

>>> on to

>

>>> delete the tab panel. Putting this close icon in the navigation

>>> sequence would make extra navigation. Is there some way to indicate

>>> to a non-visual user that a tab panel can be deleted with a defined

>>> keystroke? Perhaps we can capture ctrl-w (the key used in Firefox 

>>> and

>

>>> IE 7) to close a tab? T * here is still the issue of the user 

>>> knowing

>

>>> that the tab is closable or not. Another option is to provide a

>>> context menu. With focus on the tab title the user would press 

>>> shift-

>

>>> F10 to invoke a context menu - the context menu would have the close

>>> option. In both of these cases if the tab can not be closed, it 

>>> still

>

>>> needs to capture the keystroke so that it doesn't get bubbled up and

>>> handled by the browser. Retrieved from "http://www.weba11y.com/ <http://www.weba11y.com/> 

>>> styleguide/index.php?title=Tab_Panel"

>>>

>>> </quote>

>>>

>>> Don,

>>>

>>> Could you get this on the agenda for the Style

>>> Guide Group to suggest a preferred user experience?

>>>

>>> Al

>>>

>>> /satisfying ACTION-101

>>>

>>> PS: I didn't immediately find an answer at

>>> http://dev.aol.com/dhtml_style_guide#tabpanel <http://dev.aol.com/dhtml_style_guide> 

>>>

>>

>>

>>

> Jon Gunderson, Ph.D.

> Coordinator Information Technology Accessibility

> Disability Resources and Educational Services

>

> Rehabilitation Education Center

> Room 86

> 1207 S. Oak Street

> Champaign, Illinois 61821

>

> Voice: (217) 244-5870

>

> WWW: http://www.cita.uiuc.edu/ <http://www.cita.uiuc.edu/> 

> WWW: https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/jongund/www/ <https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/jongund/www/> 

>

>

>

>

>

 

 



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