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Re: ARIA support in HTML & XML-based MLs: a call for consensus

From: T.V Raman <raman@google.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 05:17:50 -0700
Message-ID: <18199.20206.436692.572667@retriever.corp.google.com>
To: david.poehlman@handsontechnologeyes.com
Cc: raman@google.com, oedipus@hicom.net, ian@hixie.ch, public-html@w3.org, public-xhtml2@w3.org, www-svg@w3.org, wai-xtech@w3.org

So  how  exactly do you expect ARIA to help with  the following,
each of which had accessibility support built in from the ground
up -- but were enumerated by Gregory in his message?  I can only
think in terms of concrete examples, and I get the sense that
ARIA as a nonocker is being turned into a generic flag to wave
around --- or a flagstaff to hit people on the head with ---
which would do it and everyone a serious injustice.

Examples from Gregory's message:

MathML ...
XForms (my own addition of course)


Accessibility 

David Poehlman writes:
 > It is not planned for legacy support only.
 > 
 > On Oct 18, 2007, at 4:22 AM, T.V Raman wrote:
 > 
 > 
 > Gregory -- IanH  already said this in a separate note, but let's
 > not stretch things too far with respect to what ARIA can and
 > cannot do, what it might be appropriate for and  completely
 > unsuitable for.
 > 
 > ARIA is a solution for legacy markup --- I dont think it will get
 > you far with respect to the other things you speculate upon.
 > 
 > Gregory J. Rosmaita writes:
 > >
 > > aloha!
 > >
 > > can we agree upon at least one thing -- that it is essential that ARIA
 > > be supported not only as the solution for today, but for tomorrow, as
 > > well?
 > >
 > > ARIA needs to be fully integratable with HTML, but it is also  
 > > essential
 > > to providing meaningful, semantically rich information to users of
 > > XML-based languages/dialogs such as MathML, DAISY (the internationally
 > > agreed-upon, XML derived, digital talking book spec -
 > > http://www.daisy.org/),
 > > and any specialized content markup (such as CellML, a means of  
 > > expressing
 > > biological ontologies such as gene ontology, as well as validating the
 > > models against which standards of unit balance and biophysical  
 > > constrains
 > > such as conservation of mass, charge, energy. etc. can be expressed -
 > > http://www.cellml.org/) not to mention Complex Document Formats  
 > > (such as
 > > a digital talking book with SVG illustrations and embedded SMIL  
 > > switches)
 > >
 > > it isn't a trivial question which needs to be resolved, but a  
 > > fundamental
 > > one -- how can something that enhances a non-extensible language as  
 > > well
 > > as providing meaningful, interactive access to an extensible  
 > > language or
 > > custom dialect, be incorporated into an internationally recognized
 > > standard, such as those which the W3C produces under the name of
 > > "Technical Recommendations"?
 > >
 > > personally, i don't care what delimiter is used, as long as it  
 > > provides
 > > for the integration of ARIA support into both extensible and
 > > non-extensible markup languages -- if the colon isn't
 > > "politically/practically" correct, and the hyphen slash dash breaks
 > > known extensible languages/dialects, then why not the underscore?  it
 > > actually isn't THAT unusual in the wild -- think "_DEFANGED.mp3"
 > >
 > > so whatever and whomever decides what piece of punctuation works,  
 > > please
 > > remember that access to general knowledge and communication, as well  
 > > as
 > > access to specialized knowledge domains (math, music,
 > > SVG-to-tactile-graphics on a thermal tablet, enhanced by SMIL  
 > > integration
 > > so that the SVG presentation could change over time to represent the
 > > original "peak" range of the american grey wolf, to that after 100  
 > > years
 > > of european contact with north america, to that in 1900, to that in  
 > > 2000)
 > > are equally accessible to all, no matter what the modality in which  
 > > they
 > > are presented, and, foremost, that there is a standardized means of
 > > providing such access today AND tomorrow: ARIA
 > >
 > > gregory.
 > > --------------------------------------------------------------
 > > You cannot depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of
 > > focus.                                           -- Mark Twain
 > > --------------------------------------------------------------
 > > Gregory J. Rosmaita: oedipus@hicom.net
 > >   Camera Obscura: http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/
 > >          Oedipus' Online Complex: http://my.opera.com/oedipus
 > > --------------------------------------------------------------
 > >
 > >
 > 
 > -- 
 > Best Regards,
 > --raman
 > 
 > Title:  Research Scientist
 > Email:  raman@google.com
 > WWW:    http://emacspeak.sf.net/raman/
 > Google: tv+raman
 > GTalk:  raman@google.com, tv.raman.tv@gmail.com
 > PGP:    http://emacspeak.sf.net/raman/raman-almaden.asc
 > 
 > 
 > 

-- 
Best Regards,
--raman

Title:  Research Scientist      
Email:  raman@google.com
WWW:    http://emacspeak.sf.net/raman/
Google: tv+raman 
GTalk:  raman@google.com, tv.raman.tv@gmail.com
PGP:    http://emacspeak.sf.net/raman/raman-almaden.asc
Received on Thursday, 18 October 2007 12:18:30 GMT

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